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Join us as we sit Across the Counter from Catholic Priest, Speaker, and Musician Fr. David Michael Moses.
In this ATC Episode:
• Fr. David’s Michael recounts the story of his ascent to the priesthood, a journey that defied convention and embraced sacrifice. With parents who converted to Catholicism and were entrenched in the pro-life movement, his narrative begins with a foundation deeply rooted in faith.
• At a young age, silence spoke to him during a retreat, veering his life toward a commitment that would forsake marital bliss for spiritual servitude. His account is a profound reminder that the stirrings of the heart can lead us to places of unexpected fulfillment.
• He shares how digital evangelization presents both challenges and opportunities, emphasizing the irreplaceable power of physical presence in the practice of faith. As our conversation culminates, we're left with the enduring image of confession's transformative power, a sacred space where vulnerability meets divine forgiveness.
Join us for a heartfelt dialogue that reaffirms the essence of spiritual leadership and faith in our constantly connected world.
Connect with Fr. David Michael:
Instagram: @father_david_moses
Website: https://www.fatherdavidmichael.com
Beliefs espoused by the guests of ATC are not necessarily the beliefs and convictions of ATC.
That said the intent of our podcast is to listen, remain curious and never fear failure in the discovery life giving truth. Many people we ardently disagree with have been our greatest teachers.
00:00 - Discerning the Priesthood
08:03 - Home-Schooled Early Degree and Priesthood
11:14 - Celibacy in Priesthood
20:54 - Loneliness and Clergy Commitment
28:08 - Digital Evangelization and the Priesthood
31:18 - Navigating Social Media and Relationship Barriers
36:23 - Importance of Physical Presence in Faith
41:06 - The Power of Confession and Forgiveness
54:23 - Father and Son Podcast Thank You
Pull up a chair across the counter. You're one stop shop for a variety of perspectives around Jesus and Christianity. I'm Grant Lockridge and I'm here with my co-host, Jared Tafta, and today we have on the podcast Father David Michael Moses, the most biblical name I've personally ever heard in my existence. He is a priest and that is it. There's nothing else. Nothing else to this guy.
He's just full priest.
So, father David Michael, just tell me a little bit about what led you to become a priest, how you got into Catholicism and all that jazz.
Yeah, so my story I think as most stories start really began with my parents. You know they're the ones who brought me in the world. My dad did a lot of pro-life work even before I longed before I was born, and actually went to jail about 13 times, was arrested, went to jail. At one point he was actually sentenced to 18 months in the county jail. It was all for doing very good stuff, which is probably a story for another podcast. But I grew up kind of hearing stories about my dad being willing to go to jail for all these beautiful causes and my mom being there with the kids while he wire husbands in jail and all this stuff, and it was kind of a good backdrop for me growing up to hear, basically, whatever the Lord asked of you, even if it requires everything, like the only answer is yes, and so for me, kind of growing up with that backdrop, knowing my parents were willing to give up whatever to do what the Lord asked them to do.
I didn't think too much about priesthood, though, until I went on a silent retreat when I was 16. I grew up all deserving. I would serve at the Mass, at the church services that we have as Catholics, and I always enjoyed that. I felt like that was the most important thing I was doing each week was worshiping God and helping people to worship God. But I always wanted to get married and Catholic priests have to be celibate. You can't get married. So for the most part so I kind of thought I guess it's not supposed to be a priest if I want to get married. So it wasn't until I went on that retreat when I was 16. And, like I said, it was a silent retreat. So I had been on other youth retreats that had lots of music and community and crying and everything and there's a place for that. I loved that.
But this was a week where it was a lot of silence and it was some talks and you prayed and you went to church Just in the silence. Silence is usually very magnifying and in the silence I kind of spoke the Lord's saying in my heart it might be you, it might be you, I'm calling. And I was like, oh well, I need to take this seriously. And at one point the priest on the retreat had said you should choose the vocation that will make you a saint, and by saint we mean like someone in heaven. But for us the examples of saints are like the apostle Peter and like Paul and like Mother Teresa, like these saints that we have, these huge figures, you know, like what vocation will make you a saint. And that immediately hit me like, oh, that's priesthood. And I felt that strongly, but I really didn't know why I thought that. And so I remember telling the priest who was leading that silent retreat I was like, hey, I'm kind of feeling drawn to the priesthood, but I really want to get married. I like girls, you know, I don't know what to do about that. And he said, hey, that's totally normal, that's fine, that's very natural, but God still might be calling you, there might be some sacrifice involved with being a disciple and you need to take that seriously. And that really kind of framed everything from me like, oh no, I need to like really figure this out, you know.
And so I started praying a lot after that, going to Daily Mass. And it was interesting because my parents were actually converts to the faith. So my mom was very strong Southern Baptist growing up and my dad was a Lutheran and they met, went to some non-nominational churches and then eventually found their way to the Catholic Church and they entered the church. Both of them, along with my dad's siblings and their spouses, all six of them came into the church at the same Easter. And so, you know, a big thing I knew from my parents always was that for us as Catholics, we believe at Mass it starts out being bread and wine, and after the priest prays the words of consecration, it actually becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ, which is a wild thing to believe, I agree. But if you look at the writings of the early church fathers, you know Ignatius of Antioch, justin Marjor like the way they talk about the Eucharist, like these people believe it's the flesh of Jesus Christ, you know.
And so for me, in terms of my discernment, like what do I want to give my life to? I want to do something meaningful with my life for others. And especially during that time, I just thought, like what more meaningful could I probably achieve than literally giving somebody Jesus in the Eucharist? And then also, for us as Catholics, a big thing is if the priest can act in the person of Christ, which again is a wild thing. But if they can do that, then in confession we can actually bring our sins and actually have those sins absolved. And I thought, man, like if that is something that I could, even you know help with in my life, that would probably be worth giving my life to. So just really fell in love with how a priest could help people.
I would say in that time, age 16, 17, 18. And then the kind of pivotal moment I usually tell people I, you know it was feeling very drawn to the seminary. I was about happy to the application process. I just got super nervous about the whole celibacy thing again. You know, the idea that you can't get married when you're 17, 18, sounds wild. So I remember at a certain point in your discernment I had read that you could ask God to send you a sign, like a clear sign of what he wanted you to do, because I'd been praying so much.
So I was driving downtown to meet with the priest who was in charge of the applications to the seminary and I was asking God. I was like, do you want me to go into seminary? I need to sign. Like, send me a dove, send me a dove. So I'm driving down the highway to meet with this priest and you know I saw some birds but like I wasn't really sure if they were doves and I realized like I don't really know what a dove looks like in like the wild, you know, like I probably should have picked something else, but I didn't think I saw one. So I met with him and he said, okay, if you're feeling nervous, like the Holy Spirit doesn't speak through anxiety, he speaks through peace. So really take a break from thinking about priesthood and just focus on the other options that you have and see what God does with that.
When you isolate, you know your discernment, and so the other option I had was law school. So I'd gone to college when I was really young age like 14 to 18. So I had my degree, so I was looking at law schools at 18. And got accepted to a few of them and so I was really focused on that, discerning that as what the priest had to do. And over the next few months it was just very clear to me like I didn't really want to be a lawyer. You know, the priest I talked to always said you know we can hire lawyers as a church. We can't just go hire more priests. So if God's calling you to be a priest, then like that's what you should do. And so I didn't really feel drawn to that.
But I was definitely still feeling drawn to the priesthood but, like I said, I was so nervous about the celibacy thing. So finally, I was praying at a time of prayer at my home parish and just kind of honestly, kind of frustrated with God, like I want to do what you want, but I just want to know that it's what you want and it's not super clear. And for some reason I asked again. I was like God, send me a dove, send me a dove, you know. I crashed into a window or something. And right then I looked up and realized that the huge painted glass window of the altar was, in that church, was a giant dove as a symbol of the Holy Spirit. And I was like, oh okay, like I know, that's a dove, you know. So things just became. That was kind of the nudge. I felt like I needed to keep going. So that was the point at which I entered the seminary.
That's cool. I'm curious one how you got into college at 14, that sounds insane. And then I want to talk a little bit more about the marriage. But first, how did you like, how'd you get into college at 14? Like what's going on.
Yeah. So the hack for that was my mom at home schooled me when I was younger. She home home schooled all of us at some point and so in eighth grade she especially like math and science and stuff. She like it'd be good to probably get you in some classes for that. And they have certain classes a lot of times at the college is now that high schoolers can take and they kind of count they call them dual credit classes that you can take them and it counts for your college and your high school credit, like an introductory biology course or whatever. And so usually you know students will do one or two of those like junior, senior year in high school.
And my mom was like I don't see anything stopping you from doing this in eighth grade, like let's just start with those classes. So I started taking a class when I was in eighth grade as a history class, and then she was like we can probably just do like five of these a semester. And so she just you know I was very open to it. It was never really the plan, but once you do five college classes this semester starting at 14, you just end up with a degree by the time you're 18. So it was never the plan. I'm not particularly smart, but it was a fun thing to do. I mean I enjoyed it. More people should do that and it definitely gave me a lot of options academically. And then it's one of the reasons I got ordained when I was 25 and I was so young is because I had a couple of years kind of a job academically on things. So that's just kind of how it worked out.
So ordained at 25 is an anomaly.
Nowadays it is for Catholic priests, so for us it's a seven to nine year process. For the diocesan guys, some communities it's a little bit longer. But yeah, usually nowadays guys are at least 26, 27. A lot of times it's much older. So 25, the youngest you can be. But I know a couple of the guys who were that young for different reasons too. So it's not completely unheard of.
And here's so I want to get back to the marriage bit. Why do I know about three Catholic priests that are married? Like how does that? Like, did they? I think they did the back door or something? They did like a two? Yeah, I think they got married beforehand and then transferred. In that you should have went through the transfer or transfer portal.
Dude. I wish I'd known this hack before. Dude, where were you when I was 18?
You got a degree man, but you could have had what the heck I should have been working the system.
No, no, I'm glad you mentioned that because it's an important distinction and that's why I said you know, priests are celibate for the most part. There's a few guys who are married and that could be for a couple of different reasons. I'm not sure what your experience has been, but in the Eastern church a lot of the Byzantine rights and stuff which is distinguished. There's the Orthodox church, which is actually not quite in communion with the Catholic church, but we have a lot of churches that have the same kind of liturgies. They look very similar to the Orthodox church and the Eastern rights. There's like I think 15 or 16 of them that are in communion with the Catholic church.
So they have a tradition of their priests being able to be married. As long as you know, like you had mentioned, they're married before they get ordained, even deacons, so they need to be married first. So in no situation can a priest get married. It's always something that's allowed, coming in at certain times, right. So that's one way. But even in the Eastern churches the bishops have to be celibate and we would say the bishops have the fullness of the priesthood, so those guys have to be celibate if they become bishops For us.
You're into that. There's a lot of more claws into that If they become bishops. That's like if a priest had become married beforehand and became a priest like they couldn't be a bishop.
Right, exactly, yeah, you can't become a bishop If your wife were to pass away or something like that, you know, and you're celibate again, then you presumably could or a guy could, you know, become a priest if his wife had passed away or something like that. But for us in the West it's only really allowed if guys are of another faith and they were like that was their original faith. So you can't be Catholic, become, you know, let's say, a Episcopalian right, then become an Episcopalian priest, you know, get married and then come back in right. But for someone who grew up in the Episcopalian church, became a priest there and decided that, you know, they were married and they wanted to become Catholic, the church you know the church is the Catholic church is always trying to shepherd her people. You know she's always trying to shepherd the flock. So she wants to make it easier on people. So if there's a, if there's an Episcopalian priest who wants to become Catholic, they often will try to open a passageway for him to be a Catholic priest, to kind of help that unity a little bit more.
And it is an important distinction right, that celibacy for us as Catholics is a, it's a doctrine, it's a discipline, it's not a dogma. So it's like a rule, like a rule that mom and dad and your house could have. But mom and dad could have other rules when they want to, and mom and dad can allow exceptions to their rules when they want to, but there are you can't have an exception to, for like adultery or something right Like this is revealed by God as something that is wrong. But certain things, you know, certain rules that the church has as an organization, like celibacy for priests, can change and have changed at certain times. But for most of the guys in the West, that is the big thing. When you're thinking about becoming a priest, it's like, wow, that's the, that's the sacrifice.
So you mentioned that a few times in your story and it's a big part of your story, so could you maybe dive in a little bit. Like we we don't have to go too long here in like theology, but I know that in order to make to come to the place of decision making that you came to, you would have needed to process like is this a dogma I disagree with. Like is this a like your? Why had to become aligned with what you felt, the conviction of God's? Why was so? What was that process like?
I appreciate how you said that, because you're exactly right, it's. You're not going to get to the point where you're willing to be celibate the rest of your life. Because you're like, okay, fine, I'll do it. Like you have to really believe, like this is what God is asking of me, like I've encountered the Lord and he's calling me to something that is radical.
Right, like I'm not looking at a man across the table that's like ground his teeth to dust and is like I've done it because the God asked me. Like you have a smile and you're like so that that means some things about your faith.
Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean it. And the reason why, hopefully, the joy is still there is because, ultimately, celibacy is being called to love in the way that Jesus loved, because he, jesus, was celibate, he was fully man. He's fully God, obviously, but he was fully man and and he didn't get married and he loved with a celibate kind of love because he completely give, gave himself to us and to the church. And so for me, that's what the invitation was ultimately is like, let's lay everything down the thing I wanted most when you're 18 is like to get married, you know, have a girlfriend, have a wife, have kids that's what you want the most. And so for the Lord to say, like you don't you have to do this to get to heaven. That's not what it was. He was saying hey, like, I'm inviting you to love, like this, if you want to. You know, and I knew like could do it. It was just a question of like could I be, could I have joy doing this?
And honestly, man, it's just like there's so much I could say, but just to keep it short, like I guess I would say, for me, what I love about celibacy is that you know one, as St Paul says, my heart's not divided.
I'm not thinking, oh, my wife, my kids at home, but it's like no, I show up at the parish and like I belong to the people, like I am here to give myself entirely to you guys, I'm not divided, which is a big thing. But I would also say too, like Jesus says, some have chosen to become eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom, like they had chosen to be celibate for the kingdom and for me, like you, look at, I just turned 30, I'm a young guy. People should look at my life and be like why is he not married? Like what's going on with that? Like it should be a sign of contradiction, it should be confusing. And the truth is like I'm not living for this life, I'm not living for this world, like it doesn't make sense. I'd only make sense if there's another kingdom that I have oriented my entire life and my entire day toward, and so I love the fact that my life can be a sign of the kingdom.
Ultimately, that's awesome I got. I got absolutely owned by a Catholic one time because I was like I was like where is in the Bible that it, you know, tells you to be celibate? And it was like it's right here. And I was like, ah.
There it is. I love it.
Jesus he was.
Like it says right, yeah it wasn't, like you know, interpretation of it, of a verse. It was like yes, some will be at Unix. Okay, I love it. All right, whatever. Whatever you can read right, yeah, I was like I love it. That's funny, you know, and then he just hits me with that and it's like all right, fair.
That just shows so much how like we see what we want to see so often, because, like, yeah, we'll be reading the Bible frequently in the men's groups we're in and it's just like that wasn't there. Before we had this argument that that was not there.
These filthy glazed over props and eyes of mine just can't. Can't do it, Too funny.
Which is why I love these conversations. Right, it's great Just open up on both sides, you know.
All right. So I like I don't want to stay on this, but it's kind of within this subject and ok, we can. We can cut this out like if you don't want to entertain this question, but a lot of men, especially in the Christian faith, who battle with addiction to pornography or a masturbation or just this, this mentality of like I'm a man and I have needs is almost what's expressed and like I feel like God has In my own journey and my own walk. Like it and for other men, like walked back A bit of this idea of like what is actually needed versus what are wants and what are things that are conditioning, if that makes sense. So, like what would your, what is your perspective? Been in in a life of celibacy, not being a life of less?
No, I think it's very well. So I kind of preach on that this morning, to that like God, god is never outdone in generosity, right, it's not like life with him is one of like despair and brokenness and emptiness at all. No, I do. I mean, you're exactly right. I preached on a couple weeks ago like the it's a, it's an epidemic right now with the immorality online and things like that. And People do start to act like, oh, no, I need this to survive.
And one thing I love about celibacy, again, it's it's not everybody's called to celibacy, but that those who choose celibacy are saying like actually, you don't need to live for that, like there's actually a freedom. In Saying like I don't have to have that and that freedom, right, isn't saying like, oh, I can go watch whatever I want online Freedom is saying like I don't need any of that to be happy and to be fulfilled, and so certainly not everybody maybe has the capacity for lifelong celibacy. I'm saying Paul says like, hey, it's better to be pure and be married than to be impure and be. You know, be not married, you know it's it's better to. Some people maybe have a different capacity for that. But ultimately everybody's called to chastity, you're called to a discipline, you're called to a self-control, and that does lead to a freedom, and that I mean. I guess.
The last thing I would say too, is our culture often acts like Intercourse is love, that's what love is, and and the life of Jesus, and hopefully the life of every celibate person, kind of very clearly says, like, actually, that's not necessarily what love is, because, like, I don't have any of that in my life, but hopefully I have a lot of love in my life.
I like to think there's a lot of love in my life, you know, and that ultimately, in some ways, again for celibacy being a sign of the kingdom, it's a sign of like, of Commitment, and a sign of like being able to wait on my beloved. In some way, you know, it's a bit like hey, I'm going to live this entire life of celibacy in anticipation of the joy of the kingdom, and there's something kind of romantic about that, actually, like I'm willing to wait on my beloved for my entire life, you know. So I would say like celibacy isn't like a not romantic kind of thing or something that sterile. It's actually very, very life-giving. So not everybody's called to, but I do think it's complimentary to have that in the church.
Anything else I have will shift gears completely. So Chip the gears. Yeah, if I say the name Matt Kenless, does that sound familiar to you? Or Godspeed movie?
I Actually not sure if I'm familiar with it.
Okay, there, there was a film that impacted me greatly. The website is called live Godspeed, but Matt canless was a. He is a priest overseas and His entire journey was about the, the process of slowing down and, instead of trying to rapidly build God's kingdom, like just being in the parish and like walking in the place where people lived and Getting to know them and just being there for them, and the whole movie is really impactful. It's just his story about, like his full commitment to. That is a little documentary, but it's called live Godspeed.
So the shifting gears would be related to what you said earlier, which is I'm not divided, I'm like I'm holy here, committed to the bride of Christ, like what, what has that looked like? In battling? I Kind of the word coming about right now is like loneliness, because some degree of that is like, if you're not married, like that would mean that you live alone and it doesn't mean that your thoughts are alone because the spirit is with you and in prayer and things like that. So have you ever battled loneliness? And then what does it look like to be wholly committed to the parish in that way?
Yeah, why did they actually go together? I mean, I got some really good question, because If you're gonna be conformed to Christ, which we all are called to, but I think for you in a unique way, then that means you're conformed to him on the cross sometimes, and like at one point, jesus says like my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? You know, obviously the father hasn't forsaken him, but he is feeling it in that moment on a human level. He's feeling abandoned and alone. And I think, if you want to Walk the path of Jesus Christ which is what being a disciple is there should be at least a few moments when you feel that I mean like, if you're taking it seriously, if you want to look like Jesus, there should be some moments when you're probably kind of lonely, and so I would say like I don't want to, I don't even, I'm sure, if I want to live a life with no loneliness, because that's that's not a life that would look like the life of Jesus, like even just to be the only God on earth, like you're the one guy who's God had to have been kind of lonely at times, you know, and he was, of course, pursuing and had a, you know, a deep union with the father, which we're all called to. But if the moments when I have expel, experienced loneliness, it's a call to deeper union with Christ, it's a call to recognize this.
I have a lot of people my parish, were lonely, right. You have like had spouses die or had friends that die. Like it's a reminder to me, like they're hurting, like I need to preach on this stuff, I need to reach out to them and we need to have community stuff to get them involved. So that's one. But I want to be super clear. Like I think if a priest, a celebrate priest, is living a perpetual life of loneliness, that's probably not healthy. Like Jesus had a lot of good times with lots of people.
Most of his ministry was not him on the cross. So I would say like I do make it a huge priority to prioritize Good friendships. You know people with the parish go into family's house for dinner. I love doing that when I can, just talking people after mass, hanging out with the office staff, and then I have a lot of really just good friends. You know, from before I was a priest, my family Guys who are priests. You know I had lunch today and yesterday with both priest friends called another guy on the way back. With technology, especially nowadays, you can foster that.
So I do think there is an interesting dynamic between those two because ultimately the loneliness is an availability to the Lord. Right, jesus was lonely on the cross because he was making himself available to the work of the Father, and so the moments when maybe I'm a little bit lonely, that is the Lord setting me aside for his work, you know, and you make sure you work through that in a healthy way. You're not turning anything unhealthy but ultimately like that is. That is what availability is going to be in terms of going all in on the people. And I think celibacy is a beautiful sign to my parishioners that I'm like really committed to them, because I don't have another family at home, I don't have a plan B, like it's just them and I'm all in. And my celibacy is like a real sign that I love them, you know, so that we're all in it together ultimately.
Would you say that the sentence loneliness is an availability to the Lord is true for anyone experiencing loneliness?
I think it definitely can be. Now every case needs to be looked at right. If someone's going through certain things, you might that kind of thing, but I think it is availability to the Lord, and maybe it's the Lord calling you. Like you need to call one of your friends, like maybe that's the availability, but no 100%. I mean in loneliness it means we're not distracted, right. There's at least that you know we're sitting with the Lord. I'm feeling lonely right now. At least I'm focused.
Yeah, you just mentioned technology and we're in the most connected and most lonely age that's ever been. So, yeah, that's a pretty substantial word if loneliness is also in some ways, I would say, like an invitation from the Lord, because he's never away from your side, he's never, you know, leaving or forsaking. So I like that Loneliness is an invitation. The same way sometimes that like frustration in your reading of Scripture is an invitation. It's not something that will turn you away, but something that will draw you Exactly.
So, speaking of the Internet, I'm curious what kind of led you to start that Instagram page with some silly videos, some really, you know, hard-hitting videos too, but just that sort of. What kind of got you into that? That's why I asked you on, just because I thought it was really cool to see a, because a lot of Catholics that I've met, at least, which I haven't met a whole whole bunch, but just have been like scholarly and like very and not to say that you're not that, but it's just I thought it was really cool to have like that other side of like hey, this can be fun, you know what I mean. So what kind of led you to start that kind of Instagram presence?
Yeah, well, for me, like you know. So I I didn't really know what a priest did all day, kind of until I was one, like I thought the Lord was calling me, but suddenly you're in it. You're like, oh, this is what we do all day and, dude, I just love it. Like I love the rhythm of what we get to do and the baptisms and the being with the sick and the hanging out with the office staff and the meeting of people and the marriage preparation, like it's just a beautiful kind of dance of all these different aspects of being a disciple. You know, I just I loved it and I thought, man, when I was 16, it would have been nice to have seen a video of like what a priest did all day, you know. And so one day I was like I think I'll just make that video and I was that I just got my camera out that night before it was a Friday night, and the next day I was baptizing Quinn Tuplets, which was wild, and I was like that'll be kind of interesting to sort of log the day. I had a wedding that day too, and confessions and a young adult group, and I posted online just kind of like in case, there was a young 16 year old guy, like I was, who was interested in priesthood, and what I found that was kind of funny is, like it was a lot of responses from, like you know, people who were not interested in priesthood at all, but just were kind of interested in what priests did. They weren't interested in becoming priests, but they were kind of fascinated by this life, and people who are Catholics, people who are non-Catholics, and I was like, oh wow, this is kind of seems like it's interesting to a broader audience than I thought. And so I kind of started adding more stuff.
You know, and particularly with the rise of like short form content in the last couple of years, I think that's been a real, you know, opportunity with evangelization, because I can post a pretty silly video that's just funny that lots of people watch just because it's funny, and there's really not much catechesis going on there at all, but they follow your account because it's funny. And then the next post is about like how to get to heaven. You know like what belief in Jesus looks like, and that's maybe not what they signed up for. But suddenly Instagram is evangelizing for me and they're watching these videos now, and so I do think media, in kind of a surprising way to me, is able to reach the lost sheep in a way that would be absolutely possible Otherwise.
I mean, you could try to go door to door in these things, but people are not going to invite you into their homes, probably. But on the internet they can invite you right into their algorithm, you know, if they think it's interesting. So I purposely kind of have an interplay between just random funny stuff and then try to hit them with some truth, you know, and I think the internet's interesting way to do that. So it's not a lot of my time and energy, but I think it can be effective because once you post it you don't have to keep dealing with it. It kind of keeps preaching on its own, you know, and so I think it's an effective way of reaching some people you couldn't otherwise.
Now, how do you deal with the balance? I thought it was actually really refreshing that the person that I was talking to was, I guess, one of your buddies that kind of responds to your Instagram messages, and I thought that that was kind of refreshing that you're not just like constantly on Instagram and looking at the messages and looking at the stuff. So is that, I guess, that's one way you balance it. But how do you kind of balance the digital and the you know physical world, if you will, of just you know being kind of a yeah.
I don't want to say influencer, but being kind of a, being a priest.
Is it weird? Is it weird that when he was like I don't spend all of my time, it's like don't tell my bosses, like that's what I heard, don't tell them exactly Exactly.
Well, that's the question, everybody right, how do you balance this? You know these kind of weird worlds out there, and for me, the stuff that I can do that nobody else in the parish can do is always the priority confessions, mass meeting with the people who need to talk to a priest, preparing my homilies, like all that stuff is definitely the priority, but I find that that kind of naturally lends itself toward oh, that was like interesting point in the homily that I made. People said they really appreciated that I should record a little video and some more people can see that, you know. So I think it naturally flows.
But I do think I often compare social media to like a bad neighborhood that you know bad neighborhoods, a sketchy place to be.
I would not want all my family and friends to live there, but I would hope that there's a church there and hope that church has a good minister there who's taking care of the people, and so for me, like I would recommend most people get off of social media probably, but a lot of people are still stuck in the bad neighborhood and I think we should have a priest there, and so that's kind of the way I view it and I've set up a few, a few buffers for myself.
You know, I do have a friend of mine who answers the messages and arrange things like this so that I'm not on there all the time. I pop on every once in a while just to get a sense of, like the layout, what's going on, and I'm very careful what I consume, because a lot of the stuff can get really dark. You know you want to be really careful, I think, what you're taking in, what you're taking in your eyes, you know. But I do think ultimately, if you're able to do it the right way, god can just do a lot of stuff with it. So I think it's worth investing at least a little bit in.
Yeah, like how you said, people aren't. Also, before I say this I thought while ago that I felt was valuable, is you're really well spoken, david? I really appreciate how concise and clear your sentences are, and just you're a pleasure to listen to to answer a question.
So thank you. That means a lot coming from someone who does all these podcasts. So thank you, I appreciate that.
I was going to take Mark in the positivity arena.
Well, he's smiling and positive, but he also like starts a thought and then completes it Like it was one of the three, like beginning middle conclusions. It makes me a little sick because I'm like yeah, we don't do that, because I'm so glad you asked about that and yeah, so I appreciate that and it's something I aspire to, so I noticed it. So thank you, I know it takes an encouragement yeah yeah, no, it takes a lot of work to from.
Butter him up and then ask the hard question.
There it is. Yeah, what's coming next?
You mentioned media and, yeah, I like the way that you said people aren't as willing to invite you into their home because we do have this culture that is so connected and disconnected. So like we're not willing to get to know the name of our neighbor and we would die before we'd ask them for a cup of sugar and egg at this point because, like we can get it, or like we're so self-reliant in a lot of ways or Amazon deliver it in two hours Like why would I go ask him? But then, on another level, like that has created such a barrier to relationship and our public houses, like the places that we used to spend time together, so much of it has been I don't know a word for maybe digitized, you know, online-itized. It's just been moved into a place that's non-corporeal.
So when you said people aren't as willing to invite you into their home, but like they're more willing to invite you into their mind, they're more willing to invite you into their span of attention, and what you were describing is what I felt as well like there's an equal danger there, right, like our minds are looser but our relationships have more barriers. So how have you contended with that, being a priest in a public place, when so much about discipleship is that physical relationship. It is a nearness to one another, it is a repetition of being nearby. I feel like technology, like technology is not evil, but the human heart just leans in habit patterns that stray from God and it feels like there's a lot more. You know, cs Lewis said it was a chronological snobbery to say like, oh, it's never been this way before, but it just feels like intensely more opportunistic that we can just be drawn away in so many more ways. And what would your thoughts be on that subject?
Yeah, I think one of the best examples, like with COVID. Right, we're suddenly live streaming masses and stuff and everybody wants to do everything virtual. And I remember I saw this handout early on in COVID. That was like how do attend mass online? And it's like you can't attend anything online. If you're attending, that means you're actually there, and if you're online, that means you're not actually there, and there's a big difference.
There's a big difference, and I would say like that is the depth of attend.
Yeah, it doesn't mean something you can't just say it.
Yeah, exactly, and I think a lot of what I'm trying to do with media, hopefully, is to actually bridge that, bring those people back and to be like, no like, at some point in your faith you need to show up, like, and your body needs to be in the room with other people's bodies and this is how the Lord's going to encounter us.
Now you know, like, for us as Catholics, right, it's a very big thing that, like for confession, like you're there and you say your sins, it's not a text that you send to somebody.
You know it's not a voice memo. You're there in the presence of someone and you say your sins are at mass, that you're there and you actually receive the body and blood and soul and divinity of Jesus, that your body is there and his body, his body, encounters your body because he wants to resurrect your body so you can live forever. You know, like, the body is so important. We're not angels, we're not pure spirits. So I think you're exactly right that, like, in a fascinating way, I'm going to have to remember that, like you said, we people are so slow to invite you to their homes, but you can come right into their minds and it's like wait a second. That should probably be reset a little bit, where we need to be actually prioritizing the physical a little bit more, but also like preserving the mind a little bit better, because the body is the gateway into a lot of that stuff. I think these are the challenges we have ahead.
Well, yeah, the scripture says the eye is the gateway, right, Like it. So if so much of our attention and even the way the algorithms work a lot of algorithms are we're probably getting to a place where they're like even tracking eye movement, so you don't have to click on something, you just glance at something. And if there's enough tracking of things that you just glance at and then that pops ads up, like it, I like that Scary. I don't feel good about that. Well, yeah, I laughed at like I'm not, I have not been a Catholic.
But when you said like your body needs to be in a room, I thought of like the greatest sales pitch, of like from from the Eucharist and the Catholic belief of like Jesus's body is here but yours isn't, oh yeah, and so that I think I believe that it's an issue of trust. We've had almost every institution in the greatest country that's ever existed break our trust from financial to educational to. So we're kind of shifting as a people and I'm not this is the book of Jared, to nobody write this down but like we're shifting in a way in where, like that house, that place that you can just let your hair down, like the place that nobody else is going to abuse you, it's in your home. And so, like, I'll go outside of my home and I'll work in a soup kitchen with you, I'll participate in discipleship with you, but for you to be welcomed like in my own home, where I'm going to be real and authentic and I'm not going to hide my shame or my guilt or my fear, like that's uncomfortable.
Which is the most scary thing to me is that we're most comfortable playing the roles and upholding the perceptions of who we really are and how we really feel, versus just having places where we are vulnerable together, which is what I feel like the communion of saints is.
It's a place that we're not play acting, if that makes sense and to some degree, like all of us are trying you know I fake it until you make it Like we're all trying our best to just be good fathers and good mothers and good sisters and brothers and good workmen and so like. I don't think this idea of like just try your best and set your hopes on sites above you as evil, but this idea that we can't ever just like, laugh at ourselves or be in communion together and say like we're just not all that we hope to be, but if we receive the blood and, you know, bread of Christ, the body and blood of Christ, like we can be all that he is, because all that we hope to be is found in him, instead of this expectation and this pressure. So I just I feel the pain of a priest, I guess is what I'm relating to and that you have a culture that's terrified to come outside and more so like terrified to come outside and then terrified to come inside together.
So no, I think you're so right about that. Yeah, and you're right, people's trust institution has definitely gone down. I would always say, you know, like the faith should always be in Jesus, I mean, the faith shouldn't be an institution but God. You know, as with everything, anything that's being taken seriously has some organization to it and organization is designed there, hopefully, to bring us to a good place, and I think some of these institutions, particularly the church, can assist us in bolstering that faith in Christ ultimately. But we don't want to be putting our faith in the priest or the pope or in the institution. You know it needs to be beyond that.
But to your point about vulnerability, man, that's what I love about confession is because it is a place that's confidential, completely confidential Even it can be anonymous. People go behind the screen and you can just lay it all out there and be like, yeah, I'm a sinner and I messed up in all these ways. And then you can hear Jesus say through the priest, you know, I absolve you from your sins Like, hey, what Jesus did on the cross is enough for all your brokenness, and that you can let that go and you can start again. And then I think, hopefully, right as we start to integrate that, like you're saying, like I was completely vulnerable here. How can I start to bring that vulnerability outside of confession into like authentic community with people who really love and care for me? Now we're actually sharing our struggles, so I think that's kind of the hope is to start to integrate some of that, starting with like a very safe space.
I want to put this out there that you said that is a common misconception of Catholics that priests do not forgive sins. It's Jesus through the priests, correct.
Right. The priest acts in the person of Jesus. So if, whatever extent you said, the priest forgives the sins, we mean the priest and the person of Jesus. It's not David Michael with that authority.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, even if his name is David Michael Moses. Yeah, I mean David Michael.
Even if it's David Michael Moses.
Yeah, maybe he has the power to forgive. No, I'm just kidding, I'm sorry. I had to, but no, just so. Do you like I've never been to a confession in my entire existence Do you find like, do you feel the need? Like, should I be doing that, or is it enough to confess my sins directly to God? And he pointed at the time. So we got a, we got a roll here in a second, but it might as well just open up that whole can of worms.
I love it. No, that's an important question. Well, I would say, like scripture does say confess your sins to one another, and as far as I can tell, the Catholics are kind of the only ones doing that, you know, in like an organized way. You know, I think if you went to if her for a non-Catholic to go to their pastor and tell them their sins, he might listen, you know. But I think also he would be like what am I supposed to do with that? You know, like I don't know what necessarily to do with that. We have a whole process of what, what to do with this, you know.
And then when I think it's worth saying, like when Jesus comes back From the dead, comes the Apostles and says like hey, first he says peace, be with you, which is kind of interesting, and then he says whatever sins you forgive, our forgiven, whatever sins you retain are retained, and that the fruit of that Authority, his authority to forgive sins, will be peace, like the peace that he wants to bring, and that's the final words of confession Is going peace. So I think we need to be talking directly to God. Of course we should talk to directly God about our, about our sins, but I do think it's worth saying, like, what do we do with those scripture passages? It sure seems like Jesus actually wants us to go to confession with someone. That's the biblical, theological side.
But man on the practical side, gosh, there is just nothing like going in there, being a man saying you messed up, and Then having the priest say, like I absolve you, go in peace. And then being able to be like this is the moment when I claim the salvation that the Lord won for me, like this is the moment where I get to experience the joy of Of what Jesus has done for me, and that is just, it's beautiful, it's absolutely beautiful. So, um, you know, for somebody to go to confession, they need to be moving toward the Catholic Church, which I'm obviously a big fan of, but I think for anybody, there needs to be some kind of confession A little bit biased on that end, but I do think it's worth saying a good In the collar, obviously.
Little bit biased on that one, but yes, I'm a big fan so no, no, I gotta, I gotta hear that one line from Jesus.
What so? Peace be with you. What was the next bit?
Fins on your translation. But essentially, whatever sins you forgive are forgiven them, whatever sins you retain are retained, and he says it to the Apostles, which is a wild thing. For him to say what?
the heck does that mean?
Well, for us it means what the church has done for the last 2000 years, which is that, you know, confession originally was more of a public thing and it took months and months and months and eventually became something that was a little more private, thank the Lord. But yeah, then the church believes from the beginning that we've had some men set aside and succession from the Apostles with that authority. And at the authority, I mean, what else I think how else would you interpret that verse? I'm really big on looking at, like early church history, what they did with scriptures. I think that's why the best way of determining how Jesus meant for those things to be implemented but that's the way we were interpreted like he was giving the Apostles the authority to act in this person to forgive sins.
And here's the reason why I would say that is what does Jesus say to all these people when he heals them?
He says like your sins are forgiven, oh, go and sin no war.
Like a lot of Christ's healings are connected with the forgiveness of sins and it kind of freaks out the Pharisees a lot, right, when Jesus a sins into heaven.
You know, obviously Jesus can't be going around to every single person and forgiving everybody sins. So either no one gets to experience that anymore, him saying like your sins are forgiven, go in peace, either that's just done for you don't get to experience that like audibly Spoken, or he took a bunch of dudes and he made them little Christ like him, so that he could be available in that way to all of his people, which is what we would say the priestess that it is Christ wanting to remain Present with his people in a physical way like that they can actually hear like your sins are forgiven, go in peace, go and sin no more. That they can actually hear that here, the voice of Christ, say this is my body, this is my blood, and actually receive the Eucharist that we believe. It's a way of I'm not worthy of it at all. It's absurd that I even get to be a part of this. No priest is worthy of it, but it's Jesus's love for his people that drives him to give this kind of authority is what we would say.
Now you good, I just I'd never heard that verse said like that, so I was just curious.
Well, I this is, will be the final thought, and then I want to hear father Michael Moses you said you weren't gonna call him father, and you you.
We got one out of it. We got one father out and we'll take it. We'll take it.
Why would you say that?
It's okay, my son. It's okay, my son. You call him dad.
Instead called him daddy and I was like.
You don't want to call him father. Call him dad. Amazing.
So you said something and we all like See things in different ways, but you said I'm not sure that that confession is happening in an organ, and I like that you said, apart from the Catholic Church, except in an organized way, and I would agree with you in that in an organized way. But one thing that I've seen take place in those that are abiding in Christ as he makes our body, mind and soul fruitful, is we feel this need to Confess to one another. So those that are not in in Catholic faith, like we have habit patterns in the men's groups and the scripture, studies and the times that were together, of just space to be made available for if there's confession, for there to be confession and the confession isn't that we have necessarily that I've sinned against grant, I've sinned against another. It's just that there's time and space available to receive the forgiveness through the blood of Christ. But something unique that I've been sitting on for the past week is there's a difference in Spirit and word. Right, so that so Christ is is the embodiment of spirit and word. And I'm thinking of word as, like we say, we want to speak things into existence, like I need to say this so that I can Be held accountable to it. Right like our words have a lot to do with action, and so I love what you said and I would maybe ask you like if If we're talking about confession in that sense, like I'm looking at a text message that I sent earlier today that said I Need to say this to put it into play. I said I think I'm called to preach one day not to teach, but to preach.
For that reason, I believe foul language to be a sin for me. I've never been, I've never felt it was a sin before, but I feel it is now. I'm not making claims on others that I, but I chose to tell this one person who I trust, and I'm asking God to help me eliminate that completely. So there's little chance of slipping and Harming the reputation of Jesus in the future. And what happened through that was a Equal conviction and someone who's a lot older than me and there was a participation in a relationship of.
It wasn't like we're both just like foul mouth all the time. It was just like a deeper conviction of something that wasn't seen in need of confession before but then become seen enough. I know we're we're long on time here, but I feel like Anyone who has received the mercy and the forgiveness of Christ and the fullness of Christ blood has the ability to say and this may be a theological issue, but I believe they have the ability to say like in in the blood of Christ, like, go and send them more. Like your sins are forgiven, would you? I know there's a ton of like weight Behind this, but would you agree with me or would you Say that there are some barriers in place to confession of forgiveness?
Yeah, well, I would say two things. One, I love the what you were saying about you. To speak something. There's a line I love from this kind of psychologists. He says how do I know what I think until I hear what I say? Because stuff when it's in the back of the darkness here and it's all confused by the enemy, it's not till you say it that you're like dang, I actually did do that and now I need to deal with the fact that I did it and if you don't have a form in which you're saying it, good guy, friends or confession, or hopefully both, like you may never deal with that stuff. And I get beautiful to have a space where you feel like you can. And I, he said it challenges the other person to be like you know what I actually needed to work on that too. So I think that's totally beautiful.
So what the other point that you were making, I would say kind of the original thing we were talking about a second ago, the grant was that only Christ can forgive sins. Right, so just another person saying like your sins are forgiven, go in peace, they're in that. In that situation they're not Christ, right, like now, jesus is the one who has forgiven sins. Nothing we are doing is saving ourselves, but I would say it's only Christ who can speak those words, which is why, for us as Catholics, it's the priest, acting in the person of Jesus Christ. He's the one forgiving sins. It's not simply us just doing it for each other. And again, you know, it's through the power of what Jesus has won for us on the cross that is being offered to us in that moment, and then we get to experience it.
Right. Confession is not the thing that's saving you. Confession is you receiving your salvation. Right Is what we would say. So, but regardless, I think to be speaking those sins to each other, accountability with your brothers, I mean I think I'm really glad to hear that y'all have that. I hope more and more people in today's day and age continue to have put themselves people listening, like if you're not in a group like that, get in a group like that, because it's gonna really level up your, your faith, life.
Yeah. So last thing from you I want to hear if you have anything like you want to share with our audience, like we like to create space at the end, just like if you got anything going on, you want to promote anything, you want to say anything. That's I like giving people a space to do that at the end.
Hey, I appreciate that big time. Um, no, I think for me, people can always check me online. Just check me out online the Instagram you can find that pretty much any Social media platform YouTube, Facebook, tiktok, whatever crazy place, anything. On my website, father David Michael, I've got a bit of music on, like Spotify, apple music.
They can check that out and if they're Catholic or if they're not, we develop something called the pilgrim rosary, which is basically a set of beads that you pray with, and we were tapped attached a QR code To the beads so you actually pray on them and you can log when, where you prayed them and who you are, and you pass them on another person and it actually tracks on. This custom software we created, basically where your prayer beads travel all over the world, so that the idea is they keep getting passed on. So we have like 8,000 of them in 25 different countries and all 50 states all over the world now, so they can check that out. It's called the pilgrim rosary. Just go to pilgrimrosarycom. Check that out too. But this has been an absolute blast hanging out with you guys.
Absolutely well, father. Thank you so much.
You're welcome, my son, you're welcome.
Thanks for listening to the across the counter podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate us five stars, wherever you got this podcast. Thanks, y'all.
