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If there is one thing to take away from this episode, it’s that Shama loves the show ‘Friends’.
Shama is a Christian comedian, content producer, musician, and viral video sensation.
In this ATC Episode:
• We hear insights about the delicate dance between family and career.
• The unexpected paths his life might take if his artistic pursuits don't pan out.
• We're reminded of the irreplaceable bonds that can be formed during the hardest seasons of life.
• Hear candid experiences in the creative industry and perspective on the difference between being an artist and a commercial creator.
• We discuss insights into the real struggle of putting a monetary value on creative work.
So come join us in this heartfelt conversation, filled with honesty, creativity, and deep connections.
Connect with Shama:
Instagram: @shama4realz
Website: www.shamamrema.com
Beliefs espoused by the guests of ATC are not necessarily the beliefs and convictions of ATC.
That said the intent of our podcast is to listen, remain curious and never fear failure In the discovery life giving truth. Many people we ardently disagree with have been our greatest teachers.
If you like to talk to tomatoes, if a squash can make you smile, If you like to walk with potatoes up and down the produce aisle, If we got a show for you we are now recording Hi, this is Grant Lockridge on the Across the Counter podcast, where we create space for real people to have honest conversations.
Speaker 2:Today we're interviewing Shama. Shama doesn't have a last name so don't know how to look it up. He's basically Cher or Abba or Prince or Bono.
Speaker 1:I'm going down. I love that you're equating me to the greats.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, abba is probably I guess a group, but close enough.
Speaker 3:Are you camp finding that Shama for reals in the special places, the grams and such?
Speaker 2:That's funny. It does have a Z on it.
Speaker 3:Just to point that out. All of our listeners missed the enlightening conversation prior to record. We just needed to hit record so we could capture the delightful conversation. We'll go back to the question that Shama asked before we hit record.
Speaker 1:Before we started recording, I asked you guys how do you know Logan Rice? Because Logan connected you all with me.
Speaker 2:Go ahead. Jared, You're the Logan man. You've known him longer than I have. No, actually, I've known him longer than you have, but you know him deeper than I have.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that you're not as good of friends Now Logan's going to be uncomfortable. So Logan and I were in a. We went to church together back when I really had an encounter with God and started going deeper after long, 20 years of like brokenness and addiction to pornography and things in my life, and so whenever I really encountered the Lord in a way of like rescue and redemption, I was in a church that Logan and another friend of ours were heavily involved in and we essentially Logan and actually our buddy Andrew had the only real like small group that was at that church at the time. There were other like small group-esque things. This was like maybe seven years ago or something seven or eight years ago, and I jumped into that group and there were other small groups that church but our group me, logan and Andrew like it was the only one that held all year, no matter what, yeah, and so we just grew in really deep relationship and community in that time. I mean there was like there were weeks that we would see each other like five days out of the week, like five, seven days out of the week, because we were invested in a church and working alongside each other on different projects. So and then we went through a lot of the like growth stages together, like hardships in the first years of marriage and moving toward having children, like breakthroughs and bondage different things like that. So I think it was just like encountering brotherhood at really integral, like transformational places in our lives. So yeah, that was where Logan and I like bonded into Foxall, I guess.
Speaker 1:There is a. I was watching a behind the. I'm not a fan of the show Friends. I need to lead with this.
Speaker 3:We've eliminated that demographic of our audience. There you go.
Speaker 1:I don't know what you're doing here, but I watched the behind the scenes, like the reunion of Friends and the creators of the show. I mean, I'm I didn't. You're probably wondering why did I watch the behind the scenes. I'm just interested in all that stuff, like how do things work? Especially you know successful projects like that. Even though I'm not a fan, grant Jared I could still. There's something to learn. And the creators said that they that they wanted to write a show about a season in your life where your friends are your family and my family is in Tanzania. I was born there but raised here, and so, yeah, I can really I relate to that heavy of like there are seasons where some people in my life were like I mean, I knew, talk to them, I spent more eight with them, more than I have my family. So, yeah, I, yeah, those were very important seasons.
Speaker 3:They're hard to. It's hard to accept that those seasons thinking of like, like yeah, they move in and out, right Like it's like the season is hard, but the depth of friendship, like is only found in those places. And then there it feels a lot like like reading the best novel you've ever read. And then it's like, okay, why are you making, why are you making me cry?
Speaker 2:with, with friends, and pivot pivot. Well listen, that's like.
Speaker 1:I sound like a spooker Change man. That's what I'm trying to. Trying to. He's making me cry with it Different subjects.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm supposed to be funny, but he's hitting me with this deep philosophical you know that hit show.
Speaker 1:First of all don't like it, but uh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh man, how do you know Logan Grant and Shaw? How do you both?
Speaker 1:know, oh man. So uh, logan is the brother-in-law of a man named Andrew Simmons, and Andrew and I have been music writing partners for the past. Uh, I think going on like six years now five or six years we wrote uh Chick-fil-A together and a song called Veggie Tales Remix together.
Speaker 2:that did really well online that one's fire man, the worship song song.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man, we've had. So I, somebody just introduced me to Andrew like, hey, if you ever want to do some music, he's a producer. We went to the same church together and uh, and I was like I do want to do music and Andrew was just like, just like a musical genius still is a musical genius, and so, uh, from there I knew he introduced me to it. You know, I met part of his family in increments over the past five or six years and so I I met Logan through that and then Logan and I worked together on a uh, he played guitar and a John Christ music video that I cast him in called every Christian music video. So, yeah, I love Logan and we, we got to work on some more stuff together but, man, we keep on having these things called kids and and we all got these stupid things called jobs and it really now, those are, those are important. But, uh, more importantly, like every time we see each other, we're like we got to collaborate on something and I think we will. Uh, I know we will eventually.
Speaker 2:I love that and, um, I'm going to, maybe, with your permission, put the veggie tales remix somewhere in here.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you have it, you have it Cause that's.
Speaker 2:that's an unreal song. I remember me and one of my best friends just jam into that song, so man that was a uh came up in our friend group and I just. That song is a bop, by the way, If you haven't.
Speaker 1:That's all thanks to Andrew Simmons, and I submitted a very crappy Apple notes uh, some some words via Apple notes to him and he just uh, he understood the vision and went above and beyond with it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, the vision of the tales.
Speaker 1:Dude, I mean like how do you look a grown man? And go, I want to remix the veggie tales song and uh, and he was like okay, and, and he did you don't look at him.
Speaker 3:You sent him an Apple notes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 1:That's like, uh, there's a especially in, uh, you know, any kind of creative uh medium. The first kernel of the idea is usually like not good, Uh, so. So you have to really work with people who can, who can uh, who can see beyond the the first draft, and my wife is not one of those people. I'll tell my wife and I I've got an idea and she'll go like, yeah, that's not funny. And then you know, I'll finish it, won't show it to her, we'll post it. And then, when it's got a million views, I'm like who's what's not funny, what's not funny? Now I'm in comedy, sweetheart, you, yeah, yeah Music and especially, you know there's so many things go through, so many, so many variations.
Speaker 3:And then your wife is like you think that I care because the dishes aren't done. I don't really care, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, that is a thousand percent Our household and I appreciate that.
Speaker 3:It's like look at the funny thing that the people enjoy. And she's like you're about to.
Speaker 1:Look, everybody loves me, I'm like. Look, Wayne Brady shared my video. And I was like all right change.
Speaker 2:That's on some mystical internet, that who knows?
Speaker 1:what.
Speaker 2:And right now we need the dishes done. Lots of facts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'm already going to be picking you up soon to have a place to stay.
Speaker 1:No no.
Speaker 2:Am I silly to not know who Wayne Brady is?
Speaker 1:Am I just, oh man, the the black guy? From whose line is it anyway? Oh man, yeah, okay yeah okay, yeah, the comedy genius Wayne Brady. It's a deep cut, though that's a deep cut comedy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's still. I mean that's, that's huge so.
Speaker 1:I've had. I've had a ton of, yeah, just creating from you know, sharing Subpar ideas with friends that have done really well to you know people I grew up what knowing and watching seeing stuff that I Make is is really cool. It's been a. It's been a really cool arc.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we we kind of jumped into a bunch of stuff because we know Different people and some of your story. We've had Logan on the podcast. But I mean back to Shama, you know the, what You're in your, your recording in in a church. I assume that you also like or work with the church in some way, but then you I actually do not know.
Speaker 1:I do not work with the church, but we've done some projects together. I do film some stuff with them, but How'd you get started? Yeah, how did I get started, man? I mean I have got a similar story to a lot of people when I just grew up in ministry, in and around ministry. I Was born in Tanzania, africa, moved to the States when I was two years old to my family. I have an older brother and a younger sister and my parents living here. My parents, we, we grew up in a castle To the Pentecostal Church. Then my parents they weren't too crazy about the idea of living in the United States for forever and and so they said you know, we're gonna go back to Tanzania and plant a church. So that that idea was always in in Conversations with my family, kind of growing up. So kindergarten, first grade, second, you know I just my parents would always go hey, this is great, congratulations, you're playing sports, but we're gonna go play at the church. And and I just thought I mean eventually when I graduate, they'll go do the little church thing. And no, it wasn't. When I, when I was in, I think like fourth grade, my parents were like, okay, next summer, you know, we're leaving and we're gonna. They started. We started raising, supported different churches and there was a surreal experience to I grew up in like nowhere crazy. It wasn't like New York City was. We grew up in Effingham, south Carolina, a little outside of Florence, and Big city remember. Yeah, the big. I was devastated to leave. Man, you can't take me out of, never man I need. I wore overalls and camo and, you know, honey would be begun and and then I was kind of plucked from that and Our family of five our family of five was, you know, we were just kind of dropped in the middle of Tanzania To our salon and we planted a church, I think four or five months later, and so my brother and I we ran audio and played instruments Poorly, but we were available, which is all that mattered and Preached and and so and we just, yeah, man, we just grew up around ministry and along the way, my dad had a couple of cameras. We would just ask making me borrow a camera and we would. We just film some stuff around the house, as a lot of people do. You know, I don't know where these tapes are. Every time I go to Tanzania, to my mom's house, I'm always scouring, like a like their storage, for them, but I have not been able to find them. But yeah, I mean, we started making stuff and it wasn't good, but my brother and I had such a great time and we would. My brother was like the editor and I was the director and we made some music videos for a Christian rapper in Tanzania named against devil and Mmm that's an epic name, by the way, against no articles and and some of those music videos. translation that was no, that was he called himself against devil in English, like yeah, and so make sense some of those music videos that we made for him. He was like, hey, can you put them on on like a DVD for me? And we're like, yeah, sure, and we did. And they made it to TV like the Christian music video Slot of these some Tanzanian TV stations. They would play his music video and my name would be we would do like the MTV style credits in the corner and I'm it'd be against devil, song and and director and producer, and then like the studio or whatever, and my brother and I's name would be in the corner. And so early on, like when I was I think I was like 14 I had this like thing. Like my brother and I were like, oh, wow, we're, we're on to something here, right, like we've been able to air quotes, succeed in in in this small idea that we had and and and people would stop if we were hanging out with against devil or something. People would stop and and be like dude, I've seen you on TV. And we'd be like, oh man, we, we did it, we made. If you could make it in I don't know how people know this, but if you can make it in Dar es Salaam, tanzania, you can make it anywhere, that's the same. But yeah, so that was, that was so much fun. And then I was homeschooled while I was there, moved back to the States for college, went to a Bible college and I had this, this thought process of you know I want to serve God and I still, and I still do. But I thought I'm gonna go to college, I've volunteered for a church, I'm gonna work in student ministry. I volunteered in student ministry. I'm gonna keep on doing that. I had some cameras and I would put some stuff on YouTube. My brother told me about YouTube and he was like, hey, you should upload some of your stuff. And I and I started uploading videos and and some of them were kind of good and I had some Success there and my friends and family would share them and then people outside of there would share them. But then I graduated Bible college and my church hired me on as a student pastor and I, when I knew that was kind of coming, I sold my equipment and I just went. You know I'm done with making videos, I'm done with all the stuff. I think I want to just, I want to just be working student ministry. That didn't work out. I was voluntarily let go. I Slash fired, and so I went and served a ministry. What is I was? I was given the option of staying. I Was I allowed. Let them fire me. Yeah it was one of those where they're like excellent elsewhere, you know what choice. You know what? You can't fire me because I'm firing myself. I it was. It just kind of came to a head like we we just weren't the seeing eye to eye in terms of the vision of it wasn't anything. I think everybody kind of equates to getting fired from a church or something Absolutely immoral.
Speaker 3:But yeah, that's how you go to hell, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's how you go to. Immediately the trap door, just region, opens up and you just but no, it was just, we just kind of didn't. We weren't on the same page of how to do ministry, like how to run the student ministry. And After seeking a lot of wise counsel from friends and my dad he was like you know, you have to kind of make a decision on a one friend in particular was like hey, you have to decide whether you want to be a company man, to like the denomination in the church, because that's how they're gonna do things, and and. And I thought you know, I don't think I want to do that. And so I was fired, slash quit and I worked at Papa John's Few months after that. I'd been working there for like four years and so it's very humbling to have a Bible college degree. An ex-youth pastor delivering pizza that was my reality for a few months. And I got a job working at a production company. Chris Brank hired me at a studio here in town and I learned how to shoot, how to edit, how to produce direct. And After I gained his trust I went hey, man, can I borrow some equipment and make some stuff? And I did and we made a song called Chick-fil-A. But it's Sunday, me and Andrew. So God really orchestrated so many things at the same time. So, you know, I got kind of, I got fired and then I got this other job from a friend who I had worked with two or three years beforehand. And at the same time, a person I'm working with takes me to his church and he introduces me to Andrew Simmons and Andrew Simmons makes music and I'm still working at this job and I asked Andrew to make a music you know, a song for me. And then I go back to my job and I knew a guy named Robert Thorrell and I was like hey, can you direct this for me? And so God really took what was a absolutely devastating season in my life of, you know, being fired from ministry. That was the only thing I knew how to do from 11 to 23. God took all that and really redeemed it and took, you know a lot, so much of my experiences into. You know, maybe you're just gonna do this, maybe you'll just be an amalgamation of the music and directing music and you like rap and comedy and silliness into what I'm doing now. And I Still don't know what to tell my CPA when he's like, hey, how's it been this year? I'm like I don't know, man, I've been. I've been a silly goose. What tax bracket does that put me in?
Speaker 2:I got some streams.
Speaker 1:Okay, I hosted this festival. What does that mean?
Speaker 3:I'm not bankrupt but yeah that's, that's really Not bankrupt, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, yeah, so that's. That's my story. I don't know if I should. I Feel like I've shared it a lot, but for those listening, if this your first time, yeah that's, that's me, that's Shama, and now I'm married, got married in 2018. I ironically a few a few weeks before VeggieTales remix went viral and then we had a, our son, ezra a year after that, and now we have, we added two girls. So now we have three kids Ezra, zoe, lucy. They're four, two and ten months respectively, and yeah, so I tell people that when people are like, oh man, what are you gonna do next? And well, you gotta go harder. And I'm like, no, you know, this cool success Came in tandem with my wife and now my new life, and so it's been a. It's been a very interesting, you know, half a decade of navigating, what Traveling and working and music and all this. You know what air quote, viral success means? Because now, it wasn't just me, I wasn't like 19 and figuring it out like I couldn't just pack up and move to, you know, la or Nashville. I'm like, no, I've got to, I have a life now. I have a life outside of the internet. Yeah, that's my life now. I.
Speaker 2:I love that You've got a life outside of the Internet. Who has that?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, that's the thing where it's a people will see me in person with my family, like the farmers market, you know, you know those that, you know those hot, those places where, where we all congregate here in Greenville, you know downtown Falls Park, and people are like what are you doing? And I'm like I'm a dad right now. I don't know what you thought. Right now I'm about to go buy snow cones for my family. How about that?
Speaker 2:Why are you not making any more videos right now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we need more content from you.
Speaker 2:Come on. So yeah, that's good, Dad quit it.
Speaker 1:You know what? Apparently, it's hard to do, both believe it or not. But yeah, I've just had a. I've had a blast. I've had a blast. Man making stuff has been awesome in my family, so it's been a lot of. What is it? I've been painting the plane as it flies, as some people have said.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how has that been for your like? It's funny to me that you've been said like when I talk to my CPA, like when it comes down to just what to put on paper, like from some of my own experience it's like like you can't answer. Like yeah, but how do I like, how do I document? It's like honey. I document what like? We're out here Like what has that done for your like? Because in my mind, creative genius has something to do with like freedom to just be. Oh yeah responsibilities and family and like. I've yet to meet.
Speaker 1:Some creative geniuses are very business savvy. I don't know, any. Well, there really seems to be like a, like a distinction in do you want to be like a I'm using this term like an artist? Do you want to be like creative? Or do you want to be in like the commercial world, like the corporate world? And yeah, I chose to be creative. I did, I did some corporate work, producing and editing and directing, and that those are, hey man, those months are quantifiable. Like you, can, you know exactly what you're doing, you know what your day rate is, you know what you're working towards. You have equipment. Being creative, yeah, it doesn't make any sense. I get invited to MC things or to host things, do stand up comedy, and I have a like a manager agent now, and I know how that makes me sound. But it's just. I have a lady I work with, a nice, sweet lady named Annie, who helps me answer a lot of questions, but then it's kind of like oh yeah, they want you to MC something and I'm like, well, how much work is it? And they're like, I don't know, maybe like 15 minutes for the whole day and I'm like, ok, what, what is the going rate for 15 minutes of talking? Because it doesn't make any sense. They're like and they'll fly you across the country, really, and they'll put you up in a hotel, ok, but yeah, they're honest, there isn't going.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then they're like tell me what that's worth. And then somebody's like you know what your name is worth for thinking like I don't know, like how do you? So what's your stress?
Speaker 2:At least more than 15 bucks. At least more than 15 bucks Got to be.
Speaker 1:Got to be. So yeah, that's that's the. I'm into the interesting part of my career where I tell people I could either go on to some amazing success or be homeless, like there is no. I'm at that fork in the road when, man, if I've I've met enough people in the in you know the Christian entertainment space, and I'm like if my phone stops ringing tomorrow, I I'm either going to be homeless or a church employee. I think those are my only the. The road forks out three ways Christian entertainment, creative pastor at a church or homeless. No offense to creative pastors at churches, but I'm coming for your job if things don't pan out for me.
Speaker 3:It's like your fall, that is like, well, the church will take me, yeah, don't take me.
Speaker 1:Come on, charismatic black guy, come on, come on. They need me, they need me. I'll do the offering talk once a month. You know I'll call this past.
Speaker 2:What's my 15 minutes worth?
Speaker 1:I'll call the pastor my brother from another mother, even though we got the same father. People eat that up.
Speaker 2:By the way, have you given your 10% because you better, at least at least 10, maybe 20, whatever the Lord leads.
Speaker 1:Oh man one time was doing the offering talk at my church the church that I worked at and I was going up I was going to say whether you're paid hourly or salary. This was back when, you know, I was really a company man, like I was a soldier for the local church. So I'm like, give, give, it'll come back to you All that stuff, please. And instead of saying hourly or salary, I said whether you're paid sourly, and I went that's not right.
Speaker 2:But then come to find out a lot of people are paid sourly. Sounds pretty right to me. I've worked with some of those.
Speaker 1:I've worked with TBN. I've been paid sourly.
Speaker 3:Oh man. So how do you thrive creatively in that space? That just can't be documented. Because, like a lot of what I've learned for my wife. Right Like the helper, the one that we're to provide care for, protects love well, and it's like all right, now, show me the money, show me consistency, show me something that's not wavering, and you're like, I'm like, I feel like a candle's flames. I was like, oh, I'll do his waiver.
Speaker 1:Well, there is a my some of my favorite posts on Facebook are just people who are like I need a carpenter who can build our back deck Go, and you know. And people kind of type oh, you gotta call Jimmy or whatever Anybody who does carpet work go, and so people expect that of you know. Creatives of like anybody need a man who's got five million views on a video go, you know. And you're like that's not how that works. There's a I have a very. I have a very. I'm a very specific type of person who makes things that a select, you know group of people relate to, and so the invitations and a lot of things that I've had are based on people who kind of know of a thing or know of somebody. You know a lot of stuff like that, but I've really thrived on just just relationships. Man, the people I collaborate with. I really love them PD, frequent correct collaborator and co writer with me, chase, robert, like we all really love and appreciate each other. And so, even when we're working on stuff and we worked on hits and we've worked on we've collaborated on duds, but to be honest, we all had a blast, you know, because that's what we're in control of. We are in control of what we get to do. I get invited to churches now, conferences, camps, d nows I do a lot of, I do too many D nows. I'm on the D now circuit.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what that is, by the way, it's a.
Speaker 1:Baptist thing. It's called discipleship. Now it's like a weekend, jared, you know what's up. You've been to a couple of D nows.
Speaker 2:I grew up in my bad guys. Yeah, it's very weird.
Speaker 1:I didn't know. I grew up in a house I didn't know about.
Speaker 2:D nows till, like two or three years ago. There you go, but they paid.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, they're like come out, I wouldn't go for free. If I was 16 and they offered me free pizza, I wouldn't go. But you know, I've been to, you know, going out to so many of those events. There is a part of it where it's, you know, there's 500 students in a room and I got to go up on stage and I would say, okay, like there's a show part, there's an experience part that if you love that and love that alone, it's very hollow because that's only like an hour or two of the night. And so you know, if I'm in Omaha or Ohio or something like that, like I need to, I'm going to have to converse with a lot of people. Like I need to, I'm going to hang out with people. We're going to do this more than we're going to be on stage, and so that's where I really thrive of, just kind of like man, who am I hanging out with? Who's picking me up at the airport? That person, man, tell me about yourself. How did you get involved? Like, what's your walk with Jesus been like? What's your journey been like here in town, hanging out with my friends even before? Hey, we want to work on something, but before that, what you've been watching, man, what have you been up to? Same thing with just my wife and my family. There's this like, okay, we creating is a if you look at a pie chart, very small slice for me. But relationships, conversations, lunches, coffee hanging out, that's a bigger slice. I'll tell my wife sometimes and I'll, you know, fly out to a thing and it didn't go well. My wife will be like, how was it? And I'm like, well, the service was okay. But I had such a great conversation with a guy who picked us up from the airport and was, you know, volunteered with the church. He was a commercial airline pilot for Delta and he had an incredible story about his coming to faith. And so I take stuff like that, which that's a true story. I did. I met a guy. I think it was like in Wisconsin and no, this was in Nebraska. I remember being like man. If this week, you know, two, three days means anything, I'm just so thankful that I got to meet you and talk to you and get to know you. That part, that part to me is where I really thrive. Tbn, the devil wars, all those things. They're big but you can't meet everybody, you can't talk to everybody. A lot of conversations go by so quick that I'm like, okay, if I get to have a good conversation, that means the world to me, that's a good day to me.
Speaker 2:That's something that I so heavily relate to just on, because I flip houses and stuff like that, so I just do, you know, real estate stuff. And my favorite parts of the day are like this morning at 6.30 am, I do a lot of early coffees and stuff and I love my early coffees, because who is doing anything at 6 am? If you are, you're lying to me or you're like an awesome human. And so I'll go to coffee. And just this morning was like pretty incredible to just go to coffee with this pastor and just hear his testimony, and hear his story of just like and then I shared my testimony too and it was just like such a powerful thing. And then it was like, okay, well, time to swing a hammer then. But it was like my whole day was a jam. It was just like that was worth the whole day just to have that one conversation.
Speaker 1:I've thought a lot about. I've never said this on a podcast or on the record in general, because I don't want to. I think it could be perceived in a different kind of way. But I've told friends that I have gained more and learned more spiritually, learned more about my walk with Jesus in conversations with friends than I have at church, and I think somebody could probably hear that and go oh, you just have been to like shallow churches and that's. That's not right. But there is something about something about sitting down with somebody hey, you know, sitting across from somebody, right, and learning, hey guys.
Speaker 2:Across what, uh huh, uh huh, across what you know. Oh, he knows this.
Speaker 1:That's just kidding, you know sitting across from somebody the counter, the table, the couch and conversing with somebody that I don't. You know, I mean, maybe there's a reason why Jesus said we're two or three are gathered, and he specifically gave, you know, that number, Cause it really is man Like I've walked away from like a coffee or a lunch. I was just thinking about the other day a guy I know, pastor. He's in Dallas now, pastor Jeff, and we went to the big clock of Berea. It's this meat and free breakfast place and if you're in Greenville you're like, why were y'all there and we? You know why. You know why breakfast was under five bucks, you know why.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's just bad and why not? Go.
Speaker 1:But we were there and I remember he had just lost his father and my dad had just passed away a few months prior. And, man, we were just talking about faith and pain and hurt. And we just started balling in this booth at a big clock restaurant and I think about that and part of it was like this is embarrassing, the waitress is trying to come up trying to refill our coffees, and really, you know, and. But that was such a sweet moment and so can you get moments like that in a church? Maybe, but church is two, three hours a week and life outside of church is six days, you know. So maybe those, maybe those. There's a reason why I've had more of those than I have in church.
Speaker 2:That's such a good, a good point, Cause I'm definitely in the same way of you know corporate worship is a jam, Like it's really necessary. So, and I know you think that. So you know, if you're listening, Shama doesn't hate church, he likes community and corporate worship.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's why I was like, I was really second guessing myself. I'm like, man, how am I going to be perceived if I say this? But yeah, there is. Yeah, like even this conversation of itself getting to know you guys. I'm like, wow, this is, yeah, this is. And then the fact that people are going to go listen to this You're talking about people relating so heavily to Logan's episode two and I'm like, okay, wow, there is. You know, we are doing something here. It's not like I got to be creative or whatever. You know, at the core of it and that's one thing that I've discovered in comedy and traveling and making stuff and going places it's never really about the thing. You know. You talk about music. There are so many talents of musicians, right, you talk about comedy. There are so many funny people, but what is the reason why? You know, what is the reason why some people travel the world and you know their talent just explodes above everybody else those. That's why I watched the behind the scenes of Friends to take it back. You know what I mean. Like that's what I'm interested in. Because you know, you're like, oh, it's about, it's just about the people being goofy, and you're like, no, at the core of it, it was about the creators trying to recreate art in the style of a season of life that was really meaningful to them. That's what it was about and that's what millions of people resonated with. Even though I didn't, you know, that's what people resonated with and I can see that and I can appreciate that. You see, you think, oh, the podcast. You're like, well, was it about the podcast, was it? You know, it's about getting to know each other and sharing each other's stories, and some people just you know, they need a part of it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's why we do the whole thing. We say that our hidden mission statement is just to have a good time, yeah, and we don't really care that much of like it's had a lot of listeners for no reason. I don't even really understand, because we're just some guys. We have no claim to fame or no claim to you know, we didn't go to seminary. Jared's a house church man, so he knows some things and I'm just kind of a guy that just goes around and goes to coffee with dudes I guess is something At 6 am. Yeah, yeah, at 6 am, you know best guy around at 6 am, no, but it's just, I don't know man. There is something just definitely to be said about, because that's actually how I met Logan. Was we just randomly like we knew a mutual friend, like my best friend growing up, his brother Andrew? It asked me to play it something. I played drums and he asked me to play it a thing, and that's where I met Logan and we just had a great time and no real depth like sprung from that. But it's just like me and Logan still play together all the time, like we're in this little thing called to the choir master, which my tagline for it is we play at things that nobody else would. Yeah, is our thing like? It's like, oh, the worship band won't come out and we need somebody that'll do this stuff for free and we're like, oh, we'll play, I guess. Yeah, and that's our whole thing. That's awesome, man.
Speaker 1:That's really awesome.
Speaker 3:I love that you said that Grant does, or what have you said? The man at 6 am and the man at 6 am, grant Lockridge is usually wearing anything he found off the floor and that's a fact. He literally walks in and says floor closed. I'm like dude, you can stop saying that Like. That's always like, like yeah. I had a hundred percent chance.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't want to wake the wife up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's always in the dark and he can walk in and be like, wow, that was a good call there today.
Speaker 2:But my shirt will be inside out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but Grant tell me that when you dress up, you get a lot of compliments, right? Okay, 100%, Jared, because we were setting the bar on the floor.
Speaker 2:See, that's the goal.
Speaker 1:That's what you do you dress real shabby. So the one day you were a button down, people were like whoa, I need that.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:I live for that. I need that.
Speaker 3:The bar is the clothes that you walk on top of and then put on your body. Yeah, oh yeah, and then I walked in the door to Grant's house one time and saw pictures of him like with his wife in photos, and I was like, dude, you're like a good looking man Like he was like yeah, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Clean up nice.
Speaker 3:I mean on occasion.
Speaker 2:If you look at me right now, I mean I got beard for days and I got a. This is actually my wife's shirt. I'm looking so you hate to say that, but she is the Maldon LaCrosse coach and I'm wearing a Maldon LaCrosse shirt go Mavs baby, so that's awesome.
Speaker 3:So there's an ongoing debate. It's not a debate, but a thing in we don't debate on this podcast.
Speaker 2:Jared, that's our whole thing.
Speaker 3:All right, all love. Debates we do in my house we try to not debate. There's an ongoing debate in my house that I'm not going to call a debate because I don't want to talk about it with my wife, but Conversation it's conversation. It's a conversation, but it is. My wife says, like you know, I'll do anything that is related to relationship as long as it doesn't pay and we like.
Speaker 2:That's not funny, but it made me laugh I don't know.
Speaker 1:As long as it doesn't pay, yeah, I'll do it.
Speaker 3:And so, like I have this internal, like this is real personal for me, but like this, you know, I deeply want to be a husband that gives my wife peace and provision and care and I find it hard to be like partially on in relation to caring for people. It's like it's like either like I'm engaged in looking people in the eye, remembering their name, like really being attentive and focusing on, you know, like people being the priority, or not at all, like I have a hard time with off and on and a part of that is like personality type, like some people are better with like juggling. But do you find that being the case in your life? Shama, like you know you can be engaged. To me it feels like a, like I can be looking at you in the eyes and I can be genuinely listening and attentive.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Or I can be like plugged in.
Speaker 1:I've had. I think I've been guilty of. I'm just gonna tell on myself I've been guilty of being plugged in with, like friends or strangers I've met more than my family and that's been a problem. That's something that I've been convicted of here recently. Really I haven't told anyone, but there is. You have four kids, there's always something to do, and so At the house, there I kind of like I'm at the church right now, I'm like 15 minutes from the house. When I go home, like if I walked home, like if I went home right now, my instinct is to Like pick stuff up, kind of clean up a what's the status on dinner? Let's get that going, let's do this All right. After that, let me do the dishes, load the dishwasher, get the kids to. You know, just just my. My inclination is work, and so you know my wife will be like hey, you know, can you take the kids to the backyard for a bit? And, and my first thought is that's gonna slow the whole timeline of Tonight down. My goal is to be, you know, in front of the TV under a blanket by eight, alright, and if I take them with, everything is gonna be ruined. But then I was at, I was at a conference last month and the one the speaker said he quoted a study that a psychologist did that the average person spends 40% of their time thinking about the past, 40% of their time thinking about the future and 20% on the present. And I've the mummy said that they're really like man. It really was really convicted because I was like, oh man, 20% on the present is high for me. I don't think I'm giving the present that much, that much time and I, in that he kind of seeped, you know, to colleagues or friends, collaborators. It's kind of harder to do, you know, because you're like, oh, we're working on something, so we kind of I have to be plugged in. But when I went home I think there was this like I just, we gotta do, let's just do was get, we gotta do. I did the laundry, come on out of my way, and so that's something that I've been really trying to work on of just like Just it. I don't want to say like living in the moment, because in some regard all those platitudes are like a mission impossible. I remember when my wife and I we had our first kid and people like it's gonna go by so fast, like You're cling to every moment and take advantage of this, or only this, and smalls once, and yada, yada, yada. But then in the the day-to-day grind, man, like when you have to do laundry, go to the grocery store, come back, you know, deal with the broken cars, you know You're not thinking about the moment. The moment is in the way like 5 pm. Sometimes I'm like I I can't make any more phone calls because every place is shut down and that office is closed in this office. But and then I'll be rolling around on the floor and I'm like I gotta remember to call the part, the thing tomorrow, to schedule the thing, or else the thing is gonna be ruined. And I'm like, well, why am I thinking about that? Right now I'm rolling around the floor with my son and so, yeah, that's something I've been working on. I I heard Andy Minio, yeah, you're like. It's called like living it. There's no balance, there's like. There's like live. It's called living in the tension. I heard somebody once say that there's no such thing as like balance, as much as it is Learning to live in the tension. And that's what I've been learning.
Speaker 3:I love that you, you like, stopped yourself. But you almost said the moment is in the way it's like Like this, this moment rolling on the ground with my kid, like it's in the way of my worry about the next thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, oh man yeah. There's a weird thing to hearing you repeat it back to me, jared is, I was like man, I sounded really.
Speaker 2:If it makes you feel any better, yeah, that's something that I got. I'm always hesitant to say that like this is something that God told me or that I learned from God, because First, I've heard that before and it's like all right, false, turn off your ears. I don't. I don't like this. Yeah get rid of this. But let's just say it's something I learned from scripture that that just feels. That feels a little, a little better, but it's definitely came from God, but whatever. So, just that, that idea of the thing that I have been really trying to focus on is just what's in front of me, mmm. So, like, whatever is like in front of me, like this podcast, I'm gonna be thinking about that, and I'm gonna be doing that because I am like a future guy. You know, I'm so far in the future and thinking about that. And then I'm thinking about how I did bad in the past all the time, and you know, I had a whole crazy test of money thing. So I'm always like, shame about that, shame about this. And then I'm like, well, I can do better, though in the future and do this and that. But something that has been definitely let on my heart is to Just focus on what's in front of me now instead of like trying to like jump to the next step. Yeah, so, like you know, hey, I'm a husband, I'm gonna try my best to do this today and not, you know, think about all right, in five years, if I continue doing this thing, it'll make my marriage better. It's like, okay, well, that's future. So what is like the best thing I could be doing now, right like at this podcast, like what's the best, like all I want to do is know who you are. So it's like I want to hear your stories. I don't really care if it gets a lot of lessons or if anybody like really likes it, because I'm having a great time doing yeah. So it's like let's do the best we can with that. So that's something that's been really huge. There's a for me.
Speaker 1:There's a saying um, I've seen it multiple times on the internet that life happens while you're making plans and and that's like, oh man, oh yeah. So a part of me is I'm man. I've come a long way from making music videos with against devil on a mini dv camera in the blazing heat of Dar es Salaam. But there's another part of me. I'm like I'm just as anxious Now as I was then and I'm like you're. I come so much further than that in terms of my producing ability and my creative ability. But, uh, yeah, yeah, there is man, the past and the future, and I still have work to do. And I just meant that person never called me and I'm like, well, I'm, the fact that they have my number Is incredible. You know, they would have never had my. You know they would have never had my number in any other regard. So, yeah, there is. I think that's the. Uh, that's the. The blessing and, like the, the curse of most creatives is that. What is it like? You're only as good as your last gig, you know. And so You're like, yeah, I gotta make a, I gotta have another good gig so that I can talk about that gig and hopefully that gig will get me good gigs, you know, and then you just end up, I mean, it's like a we had a thing do really well in December that me and a friend wrote and like people were like congratulating me on it, um, and I had, like I was like what, oh, the, the, the hallmark Video that you, and like Dude, I was like when Steph Curry shoots the ball, he would shoot these threes and before it hits the basket he's already turned around, you know, and that's, I feel, a lot of time. I'm like uh. I did it, go in. I don't, I don't care, I still have to. I gotta run across the court. You know that's that's how I've lived the majority of my life of like no, I think. What did they say? Like, you know, it's hard to be ungrateful. You know we're anxious, like if you're thankful and I'm like, oh, I'm not thankful, I'm not thankful just because I'm like I still need to do this is fine, but I still need more and I still need the, the connections, and the whatever and the, the ladder. I still got a climate.
Speaker 3:It's weird to think that, like you, can't be thankful if you're not watching it swish Like you yeah like what is there to celebrate? Like you aren't even looking at what. No, God has done this. Like you're just running and like everybody in the world has played any sports. Like the thing that you hate most is Taking the shot and then having to make it back to the defensive line to make sure that nobody else screws you over before. It's like it's yeah, that's the worst part. It's like god, it's like you despise that part. Yeah, you know least wait and celebrate the fact that you made the shot.
Speaker 1:But like I'm playing 1v Nobody and I'm still like better, hurry back 1v nobody better. I need to. I need to get back so I could do that again.
Speaker 3:I gotta keep scoring, yeah there's a, there's a book called um it's by. It's a really small book. It was written post mortem by his fans, by a guy named um brother Lawrence, and uh, he it's called practicing the presence of God and it I think earlier I had the thought across my mind when he talked about like the future in the past and it's that like the only moment that peace resides in is the present. Like there isn't peace available in the future and there isn't peace available in the past because Both of those the looking backward says not enough, like I was not enough, he was not enough. That like Unless it was in thankfulness, like it's a way to say not enough, and then like looking forward, I'm thinking about like I'll, I'll throw myself in that pit with you, like being with my kids or with my wife or whatever the current moment holds. It's not, not good enough to satisfy me. And so I'm looking for whatever selfish measure, whatever thing In the future. You know, the bed that covers, like Whatever self-involved thing, is going to be enough. And then, even when I get it, it's not enough, it just it just momentarily satisfies. And so it's weird to me that, like we know, culturally, people that have abundance and riches and, you know, have made All the time and money for themselves possible, and like there's evidence from people quote at the top that say Like they've never felt more hopeless in their lives, like we have evidence that it's not gonna change, it's not gonna change your peace, and yet Even in myself it's like, well, what else could I do? Just enjoy this moment. How the hell could I do that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like what? What would it require for me to just Like Enjoy this bite and not be thinking about the next?
Speaker 1:And that's where it's like this, uh, it is like I mean, I use a like mission impossible. You know, we're all we're like tasked to, uh, be thankful, playing ahead, you know, for creatives, you know it's like, oh, you know, you got a plan to retire. I'm like plan to retire, dog, I only have work for the next three, three months. Okay, I'm Retirement me. It is a that's a whole different shama. Okay, uh, right now, shama's got to make it to november. Uh, we'll see, we'll see. Um, and so there's like, you know, plan ahead. We think, you know, do whatever invest. And uh, like, I hear you and gran you're talking about you flip houses and In me I'm like, oh, that's what I should be doing, you know. But then I'm like I'm not good with tools, you know, I'm like I'm not good, I'm not building nothing, I rent. I don't even own a house, you know. But there is a part of me that I'm like, oh, I see. I'm like, oh, I need to be doing everything except what I'm currently doing. That gives me joy and has been, you know, like the horse I rode in on the part of me is like time for a new horse and I'm like no, no, no hold on. But yeah, that's where I'm really relying and I mean heavily relying on the direction of God and my purpose. And yeah, just you know, hey, god, you've brought me this far. I need you to keep it going, please, or else I'm gonna fall flat on my face.
Speaker 2:At least for three months, for three months.
Speaker 1:God please. I'm praying about December right now. I'm like God, please, three kids. They need Christmas presents. They don't need them. It'd be nice I'm gonna re-wrap.
Speaker 3:They don't need them. Please, it'd be appreciated. I think I'm a good daddy.
Speaker 1:Please. So you know, there's just so many elements like that that you try to hold them all at the same time and you quickly find out that, oh, I'm not good at I can't, I can't. You know, I can't hold them all. Maybe I was never meant to, and that's what I've been discovering a lot this year. I've been learning a lot of what I can't do and I'm really making my peace with that. So when somebody tells me something, I'm like yeah, I'm probably not gonna be able to do that man, I'm probably never gonna do a kick flip. That's just something like I'm 31. It's not gonna happen for me, right? I'm probably not gonna be the best standup comedian in the world, cause I'm not gonna pack up and move to New York or LA, you know. So I'm like and that's okay, that's okay. You know what? I'm gonna be a dad. Instead of telling jokes at night for an audience, maybe I'll tell jokes to my kids and I'm gonna sell them tickets. There's gonna be a two drinks minimum. You know what I mean? Grant Like it's not free. I'm not free.
Speaker 2:It's not free.
Speaker 1:But making my peace with that of going like, hey, I'm not gonna travel every weekend cause I've got a smoker and I gotta smoke. I gotta smoke something for the kids on the weekend, like we gotta hang out, we gotta eat, we gotta have people over. So that's really where I've just been at in terms of my walk with the Lord and my marriage and my family and my career, and I would say in that order.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I'm gonna read some scripture, just because this Wait, is this a?
Speaker 1:Christian podcast. I wouldn't say I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't say Christian, it's definitely word Christians.
Speaker 3:This is two Christians idiotically recording a podcast. We're trying our best over here.
Speaker 2:But I wanna read this bad boy just because it's like the definitely. It is the cliche of like you're like, oh, you're probably gonna read this one, probably, but the line before it is pretty huge. So it's the do not be anxious about tomorrow. You know that sort of deal, but somehow I just missed the line before that, which is but seek first the kingdom of God. So there's Matthew 6, 33, 34, and it's talking about like what can we eat, what can we drink, or all the anxious thoughts. And then it says but seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Therefore, do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself, sufficient, for the day is its own trouble. So it's like it just puts a little bow on it. For me, this is actually Jesus talking. So it's almost like Jesus knew what he was talking about. So it's like man, is that huge?
Speaker 1:Tomorrow has its own troubles. It's like oh man, boy, is that right you?
Speaker 3:know what.
Speaker 1:I really like to borrow some of tomorrow's troubles. I need, I need, I like to worry about those now. Get a little head start, yeah.
Speaker 3:It's like if today is like brutally hot but tomorrow is gonna be like raining, it's like let me just endure this heat and go ahead and just endure some humidity and rain as well At the same time, but let's just, let's just see if I can feel all of that. I think maybe like two things and then you can give your final thoughts. Shaman, we can end on this, but like two things come to mind. One is like, oftentimes, our brides, our wives, the ones that are bound to imperfect men as helpers, as providers, as caretakers, Like the idea of submitting to one that's going to fail. Like I can't imagine myself being in a position where these beings that partake of my body for sustenance and depend on me are now dependent on this, this thing that says he's a man Like and is struggling to grow into what that looks like. Like I've never and will never be in that position. So I can't imagine the anxiety and stress that causes. But then I think about us as the bride, like husbands are also the bride of Christ, and we're in this same battle of the Lord, saying basically like do you trust me Because the present moment is peace? If the answer to that question is yes, yeah. But it's only if the present moment in the answer to that question is yes, like as many times as I think about tomorrow or yesterday. The fundamental prerequisite question should be do you trust me? Do you trust me? Do you trust me, do you trust me? And I've learned that there are three voices that are not God's voice. There's the world's voice, there's the enemy's voice, and then there's my own voice, the flesh, my own spirit, and the enemy is often called the accuser right, the one that says you are a failure, you'll never be this. Then there's the voices of shame, disappointment, condemnation, and to me, like all of those voices, feel depraved in spirit. They feel like less than they say what is not. And the one thing that I feel like the Lord has been speaking over me is like, can I hear what he's saying about who he is and then who he sees me to be? And so I wonder if practicing the presence of God is hearing what a heavenly father has to say about one in whom he is well pleased. So what is that in a world of media culture? And what do you hear, shama? And what do you feel in terms of what your heavenly father has to say about Shama, like how does that empower you to bring life, to the creative genius that God has placed in you? I'll say that for you, that you're the only reflection that is the tone and color of who you are, that will ever be, and you're made in the image of God. So there's a one time 40 to 80 year span that the world gets to see a reflection of God that never has been and never will be, and it's only for this moment and it can't be stolen, or it shouldn't be stolen by what you are not or what you will not be. So what does that mean for you?
Speaker 1:A few months ago I was talking to my wife about something or I don't know. I was just, I was a vision casting the next two, three months of our lives and my wife snarky, but not, she wasn't trying to like you know hurt me but she just said you know, we'll see you on the other side. And I was like the other side of what she was like, oh, if you're like your career and not really that really cut me. I don't think she meant to. I think she was just sort of like you know, you're doing a lot, congratulations, we'll be, we'll meet you there whenever you're kind of done with it. And that really kind of changed those. That was God really speaking through her. Of like you know, I don't want to do I was doing this alone, like I was the. There's a part of me that I'm like it's all me. You know one V, nobody, it's me. And I'm doing it. And because that happened, because I did this and that happened, but of really like in my life, even just talking about like how I, you know the people that I've met and worked with, I'm like, no, that was all God, that was really and truly all God along the way, and I know that now. I know that now, cause you know, like hindsight is 2020, but I've been learning to go. You know it's still is God now and, even though it's like it's blurry, I can't see that. And so it's not all me which is, you know, as, like a man, as a dad, there was a part of like my like our house got burglared earlier this year and like, like, the safety of our families on me. You know, I need to update the cameras, I need to do the. Do I need to get ADT? I need to and I was like, no, I don't know the safety. You know that could have gone a lot worse, but God was with us. God was with us and God's still gonna be with us. And so, yeah, that's what I've really felt like, you know, like God's been speaking to me the past, like earlier, early last year, I've told my wife and I'm like you know, I think I told my wife this cause I was like I feel like this is what God's telling me, where I feel like God is impressing this upon me, but then I like I forgot it, like I forgot, you know, when you know where you're, like this is so important, what a very important feeling and then I'm like, oh, wow, I can't believe I forgot. It was so important that I didn't remember it. But just the fact that like God is more like interested God, is more like involved with like what he's doing, like in me, in us, in my family, then, like four, air quotes us. So there is a part of me that I'm like oh man, the opportunities are great this year, the stages have been bigger and the opportunities have been bigger, and the numbers and the views and all of that. But I'm like you know what does that mean? What does that mean for me? What does that mean for us? Cause that was almost like really an aside, it's like just me. I'm like, no, that was never me, it was always God. And now it's my family and myself and God and everything about, I would say, creative, the entertainment space music, movies, comedy is the more successful you get, the more away from your family you are, and that's your reward. Your reward is travel. Just watching somebody was like, yeah, I live on the tour bus, so blessed to get to do this. And I'm like you're blessed to get to live on a bus, but that is success, right. And so in my mind. I've been like what have I been chasing? What have I been? I've been chasing this thing and I'm like, oh, I'll have it then. And I'm like, no, I always had it. And so, and God, not that I always had it, but God always gave it to me and he's still providing. And I mean, call me crazy, but I think he's gonna provide in December too. After my three month, after my runway runs out, I feel like God's gonna extend a little more. Asshole. Shout out to Larry Duck, you come.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to the Across the Count podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate us five stars wherever you got this podcast. Thanks y'all. Why, oh why, doesn't everybody have a wonderful pillow? Keep walking and walking, but you won't knock down our wall. I think cheeseburgers are precious and the very best show is VeggieTales, veggietales, veggietales, veggietales, veggietales, veggietales, veggietales, veggietales. Never, ever, ever been a show like VeggieTales. There's never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever been a show like VeggieTales. I still don't know what I'd do if my lips left me man.
