Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:00.059 --> 00:00:00.443
Perfect.
00:00:01.108 --> 00:00:02.540
Cool, all right, it's working.
00:00:03.162 --> 00:00:04.027
I will warn you guys.
00:00:04.027 --> 00:00:13.833
I have my phone very precariously set on top of a candle, so if there's a loud bang, then, dude, it's not going to fall.
00:00:13.833 --> 00:00:15.326
Yeah, it'll be fine.
00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:17.388
Bro, it's definitely going to fall.
00:00:17.388 --> 00:00:19.096
It's going to fall, it's going to fall.
00:00:19.096 --> 00:00:22.769
I love when it's on top of a candle, not even like yeah.
00:00:27.420 --> 00:00:31.338
You know when it's on top of a candle, not even like, yeah, you know a full stack, there's a professional recording studio that you have set up right now.
00:00:31.338 --> 00:00:31.859
That's all I'm saying.
00:00:32.301 --> 00:00:34.249
I mean, I'm literally in my studio.
00:00:34.249 --> 00:00:38.148
I'm just like I don't know how to use any of the mics for podcasting.
00:00:38.909 --> 00:00:39.490
He's a pro.
00:00:39.490 --> 00:00:45.618
Yeah, they're called AirPod pros.
00:00:45.618 --> 00:00:48.307
Well, I'll say them a little.
00:00:48.307 --> 00:00:57.253
Pull up a chair across the counter, your one-stop shop for a variety of perspectives around Jesus and Christianity.
00:00:57.253 --> 00:01:02.631
I'm Grant Lockridge and I'm here with Jared Tafta and Chris Renzema.
00:01:02.631 --> 00:01:13.765
And Chris, we were talking a little bit before about you getting involved in a screenplay and I'm not entirely sure what that is, so hit me up on what that is.
00:01:14.307 --> 00:01:27.983
First of all, yeah, well, I'm not exactly the expert for sure, because I am just beginning to get into it, but yeah, I guess it's basically sounds like a really dumb answer, but it a play.
00:01:28.222 --> 00:01:59.334
Play for screen, you know, um yeah, there's no joke in the script yeah, that's what was going through my head, but I was like you can't say that out loud some things, some things are, you know, as simple as they sound it's harder to write it than to describe it, but uh, yeah, that's been kind of my summer project, um, since getting off the road, being a novice at something, so that's awesome, that's really cool
00:02:00.036 --> 00:02:30.622
I I the reason that we're talking about this is because, also, you mentioned that and I've just randomly been thinking about that whole world of there's people that write screenplay for many, many years even as, like young men and like the actual movie only has maybe like a paragraph of what originally started.
00:02:30.622 --> 00:02:34.412
It's like their entire screenplay and I just found that fascinating.
00:02:34.412 --> 00:02:47.348
But what I love about our interviews, especially with artists, is often like we only get a taste of like what the artist has already done, and maybe songs you have to repeat over and over and over.
00:02:47.348 --> 00:02:52.824
Um, and so I wonder sometimes about you getting tired of like the same thing.
00:02:52.824 --> 00:02:53.787
If that makes sense.
00:02:53.787 --> 00:03:01.169
So it's awesome to hear you be like, hey, I want to do something different and like maybe write a screenplay.
00:03:01.169 --> 00:03:01.710
So like what?
00:03:01.710 --> 00:03:11.514
This doesn't have to be the whole conversation, but like what's on your heart, like why do you get tired of the same old thing and and what's that about?
00:03:12.782 --> 00:03:15.167
yeah, no, that's a great, that's a great question.
00:03:15.167 --> 00:03:37.686
I think, uh, yeah, I mean, I'm coming off of a kind of a long period of I sort of realized, um, the beginning of this summer, like with the exception of, uh, like covid, which I don't even necessarily know, if I count that as a break, because it was, I don't know, it didn't feel like a break to me.
00:03:37.686 --> 00:03:51.807
Um, I've basically been like like writing and recording albums and then touring, when that's um, an option, almost like nonstop, since like 2017.
00:03:51.807 --> 00:04:02.959
And uh, yeah, like, eventually, this I just wrapped up like my fourth record, my I don't know how many, if many, if tour, and yeah, I think it.
00:04:02.959 --> 00:04:10.405
Just there's something that feels a little yeah like I don't, I don't exactly want to do the same thing just again.
00:04:10.425 --> 00:04:20.572
I don't want to, like, fire up that wheel, um, and so, yeah, I've just been getting trying to get excited about other stuff and other other art.
00:04:20.572 --> 00:04:25.709
Um, don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm giving it a shot.
00:04:26.750 --> 00:04:27.232
I like that.
00:04:27.232 --> 00:04:28.334
That's so cool man.
00:04:28.334 --> 00:04:31.529
Just to literally be like all right, I'm an artist.
00:04:31.529 --> 00:04:34.860
I'm not just a singer, songwriter, I'm a daggum, I'm a, I'm a.
00:04:34.860 --> 00:04:36.425
Go be an artist Like that's.
00:04:37.165 --> 00:04:57.985
That's cool man, that's yeah, again, I can, and maybe by the time this podcast is out there will be a I don't know how, what a lag there is on your release schedule, but maybe there'll be a very bad film in the world that I made we can reassess if that really counts as me being an artist, if it comes out before this podcast.
00:04:58.026 --> 00:04:59.230
It'll definitely be bad.
00:04:59.980 --> 00:05:02.589
If you bust out a film in the next month.
00:05:02.589 --> 00:05:04.565
It's not looking good.
00:05:12.500 --> 00:05:13.824
I mean, we're not fast, but I think films take a minute.
00:05:13.824 --> 00:05:14.586
You're gonna give us a minute?
00:05:14.586 --> 00:05:17.036
You're gonna give us any insight on what's it about, or you don't want somebody to, like, poach your idea?
00:05:18.601 --> 00:05:18.822
I don't.
00:05:18.822 --> 00:05:30.802
I don't know if I'm at risk for that, but uh, I think I mean it's sort of uh, I don't know, it's like, it's kind of like a coming of age sort of thing.
00:05:30.802 --> 00:05:34.028
Um, there's some crime in it.
00:05:34.028 --> 00:05:34.990
I don't know.
00:05:34.990 --> 00:05:36.271
I'm just kind of shooting.
00:05:36.992 --> 00:06:15.033
Yeah, like, um, I think it's it's a closer thing to, uh, it's songwriting than I guess I expected, because it really is like, I think a lot of times songs, you know you're trying to bottle an experience into like a pretty short form kind of you know presentation, and I think this is like in a lot of ways similar, trying to just do like a snapshot of, like maybe something about growing up or something about, um, you know, a life experience.
00:06:15.033 --> 00:06:22.064
Uh, what's kind of fun with the the screenplay side is it's um, I don't really do a lot of.
00:06:22.064 --> 00:06:22.884
You know.
00:06:22.884 --> 00:06:32.569
There's like, you know you got your classic like Bob Dylan, you know writing about Joanna or whomever that maybe doesn't actually exist.
00:06:32.569 --> 00:06:37.812
I've never really done that in my songs, like write about some fictional sort of thing.
00:06:37.812 --> 00:06:46.338
So to get to do fiction is kind of a fun way to mess with writing that I haven't really gotten to do Right.
00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:52.569
Because, like a lot of your inspiration and your music has come from your real lived experience.
00:06:52.569 --> 00:06:54.574
Yeah, for sure.
00:06:54.574 --> 00:07:03.603
Yeah, you mentioned a little of something like a piece of what I feel like may be difficult sometimes as an artist.
00:07:03.603 --> 00:07:08.694
I have artistic bent but I'm not an artist.
00:07:08.694 --> 00:07:42.675
But I think sometimes the world likes to give us labels and so once you produce something that the culture likes, then you're asked for the same thing and I process sometimes how lonely it must be to always be following your passion and direction, when you could be making the people who have quote, got you there or supported you angry at the next thing that you want to do or you want to lay down what you're doing.
00:07:42.675 --> 00:07:50.526
So and then you don't want to be disingenuous, right, Because it was genuine authenticity that got you quote, got you there in the first place.
00:07:50.526 --> 00:07:53.526
But now your new authenticity is not the same as what you were.
00:07:54.569 --> 00:07:56.333
So yeah, absolutely.
00:07:57.019 --> 00:07:57.701
How does that?
00:07:57.701 --> 00:07:58.946
How do you?
00:07:58.946 --> 00:08:04.865
I feel like that would be pressure, but are you able to just like let it roll off your back, or what?
00:08:04.865 --> 00:08:09.031
How does that work in your mind in terms of conflict?
00:08:10.492 --> 00:08:11.654
Yeah, no, that's a.
00:08:11.654 --> 00:08:22.035
That's a great question, I think, um, it's very true that there becomes a bit of a like it's, like not.
00:08:22.035 --> 00:08:43.261
It's not like anybody's saying like, hey, you better, you better make another this kind of song or this kind of thing, but you feel it because you, you know people's, people sort of speak with their engagement, right, like I've kind of learned like peek behind the curtain on my analysis of my own career.
00:08:43.261 --> 00:09:03.947
I guess it's like if I do like some sort of like mid tempo piano driven worship ask song, people are gonna dig it and I honestly, at this point in my life, like I feel like I've I've written enough of those and I'm not super interested in doing it.
00:09:03.947 --> 00:09:08.833
I've written enough of those and I'm not super interested in doing it.
00:09:08.854 --> 00:09:46.592
Um, and it is kind of tough because you're like I feel like on this last record in particular, I really kind of intentionally put myself in kind of an ISO situation where, um, very actively trying to not listen to like outside input, like the kind of the goal was to write a lot of it myself, not have a lot of co-writers If they were co-writing, to have it be kind of late in the game, just kind of like wrapping things up versus like ideas for stuff, because I wanted to say more things than I didn't.
00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:49.990
I didn't really want to retread old ground, but it's.
00:09:49.990 --> 00:10:38.527
I think you're kind of hitting on like what is ultimately the most difficult task of artists is that, like you, you have to be okay with the fact that, like for you to be genuine and to keep moving forward and keep being like interested and engaged with like your own creative, like endeavors, you have to be willing for people to be like I don't really want to follow you on that trip which, you know, for anybody who is trying to find, you know, some affirmation in the things that they do, that's kind of a hard balance to strike or hard path to like go down, you know.
00:10:40.048 --> 00:10:40.327
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:40.327 --> 00:10:50.312
By the way, manna is literally and this is no joke the best Christian album I've ever listened to.
00:10:50.312 --> 00:10:52.114
Oh, man.
00:10:52.114 --> 00:10:53.375
No joke.
00:10:53.595 --> 00:10:54.995
Nice, I got the affirmation.
00:10:54.995 --> 00:10:58.717
I'm good If you'd like a little affirmation, yeah.
00:11:00.660 --> 00:11:02.048
That's so kind, thank you.
00:11:02.048 --> 00:11:04.118
It sounds so honest.
00:11:04.118 --> 00:11:05.403
Thank you, I don't know, man.
00:11:05.403 --> 00:11:09.623
Man, it was just like how is that christian music like in a good way?
00:11:09.623 --> 00:11:28.576
And yeah, I was a big fan, dude, I saw you play live at um the foundry at judson mill in greenville, south carolina, and I brought one of my buddies and um we were hanging out and you played faith and dude was like that actually slaps.
00:11:30.604 --> 00:11:34.952
I was like yeah, he's not like listening to whatever you know christian music there is.
00:11:34.952 --> 00:11:38.804
He's just like was listening to you and he was like no faiths.
00:11:38.804 --> 00:11:41.249
Yeah, that that hits pretty good.
00:11:41.249 --> 00:11:54.351
So I don't know just just to encourage you a little bit that that album is I'm not joking Me and my wife have probably listened to it 50 times Like it's insane.
00:11:55.221 --> 00:11:56.426
I appreciate that so much.
00:11:56.426 --> 00:11:59.024
Yeah, I feel I feel really proud of that record.
00:11:59.024 --> 00:12:01.951
I think, um, for me it was definitely like.
00:12:01.951 --> 00:12:13.793
Uh, I feel like every album I've made I've I've gotten more into like and it's been a very I think it's been a natural progression.
00:12:13.793 --> 00:12:16.825
But, like, my first record was very much like.
00:12:16.825 --> 00:12:27.013
I would describe it as like like a worship album with like some kind of personal anecdotal stuff, like, but very little.
00:12:27.013 --> 00:12:27.975
And then it's kind of like.
00:12:27.975 --> 00:12:57.827
Every subsequent record has had more of my like overt personal experience kind of put into it and it's it's been a really just like creatively very gratifying experience to to make manna, because I think it as far as like a songwriter and trying to like tell story and really kind of get a little more autobiographical with it, like I got to do that and it seemed like it kind of worked.
00:12:57.827 --> 00:13:00.113
So, um, that's cool to hear.
00:13:00.113 --> 00:13:01.644
I'm appreciate that.
00:13:02.447 --> 00:13:05.488
Yeah, your songs, like specifically in that album.
00:13:05.488 --> 00:13:10.721
Grant is a Music I don't even know Like what.
00:13:10.721 --> 00:13:12.761
Is it audiophile or music Nerd?
00:13:12.761 --> 00:13:14.248
Like you, love music.
00:13:14.620 --> 00:13:17.312
Yeah, I'm definitely a music Nerd, no doubt.
00:13:18.306 --> 00:13:31.076
For him to tell me like this dude's album Is like my favorite album Of all time, like it was a big deal For him to say that and like I I feel like your lyrics like stick with me and some of it is.
00:13:31.076 --> 00:13:38.221
But like I'm a lyrical person, my wife like almost doesn't hear lyrics, she just hears like the music, which it's just strange.
00:13:38.221 --> 00:13:39.504
Like I'll be like did you hear that?
00:13:39.504 --> 00:13:41.291
And she's like I don't even know what they said.
00:13:41.291 --> 00:13:43.985
We were listening.
00:13:44.426 --> 00:13:53.091
I I made her listen to the Holy Ghost song or that line like the Holy Ghost keeps haunting me and I loved how you were kind of tongue in cheek.
00:13:53.091 --> 00:13:54.345
There's humor in it.
00:13:54.345 --> 00:14:00.325
You talk about standing there and you're the only one that didn't lock your knees and wondering what's wrong with you.
00:14:00.325 --> 00:14:01.605
And I play that.
00:14:01.605 --> 00:14:03.592
I'm just smiling and it's funny and worshipful.
00:14:03.592 --> 00:14:08.532
But I can't get away from him because he keeps chasing me with you and like I play that, I'm just like smiling and it's funny and worshipful, but there's still like but I can't get away from him because he keeps like chasing me.
00:14:08.532 --> 00:14:10.841
I want it, but I don't want what's fake.
00:14:10.841 --> 00:14:12.908
And then I asked my wife I'm like do you hear?
00:14:12.908 --> 00:14:13.769
Like that was awesome.
00:14:13.769 --> 00:14:16.005
She's like I mean, I didn't listen to the lyrics.
00:14:16.005 --> 00:14:16.990
I'm like what are you doing?
00:14:17.009 --> 00:14:37.731
like the drums were good, the drums were sounds good they're slapping it and, yeah, I really liked a lot of the I don't call it like gallows humor, as much as just like I believe that love, light and dark love and death.
00:14:37.731 --> 00:14:49.041
Like there's a paradox in this life, and so it feels like you walk the line of the paradox of like here's the way I feel about things and here's what feels a little bit like bs to some degree of what I was introduced to.
00:14:49.041 --> 00:15:14.166
And then here's like I still want these things, um, even your song about like um, you know, uh, prozac, I think it would like the chemicals not being right and things, and it's like I don't know when did you get the freedom, I guess, to just this is going to sound stupid when did you get the freedom to say what you actually think and feel in a song?
00:15:14.186 --> 00:15:17.384
Yeah, man, where did you get this freedom?
00:15:17.384 --> 00:15:17.785
Because?
00:15:17.846 --> 00:15:18.168
I like that.
00:15:20.403 --> 00:15:20.822
Who let?
00:15:20.864 --> 00:15:34.860
you do that Not yeah, well, I mean yeah, um, I guess on, on the one hand, this was my first record in a few years.
00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:46.326
I went, I went indie again before putting it out, so that definitely felt like a little bit of freedom as far as doing my own thing.
00:15:46.326 --> 00:15:58.229
But yeah, I mean, I've always been the kind of person where it's like I have like a terrible poker face, like in every sense of the phrase.
00:15:58.229 --> 00:16:08.427
You know, if I'm having a good time, you'll be able to tell, if I'm having a bad time, we'll be able to tell, and I think I've been.
00:16:08.427 --> 00:16:13.110
You know, I started going to church like pretty regularly when I was a teenager.
00:16:14.192 --> 00:16:22.258
Um, and you know, really like personally getting you know going for it.
00:16:22.258 --> 00:16:38.687
I guess, uh, and it's always just been this kind of thing where, like, if it feels like it's uh bullshit, then I like, oh sorry, can I say that?
00:16:38.687 --> 00:16:42.813
Um, if it, if it feels uh bullshit, then I like, oh sorry, can I say yeah, whatever you want?
00:16:42.813 --> 00:16:44.876
Um, if it feels like bullshit, it probably is.
00:16:44.876 --> 00:16:47.461
And uh, you know, I I don't feel um, yeah, I guess it's it's.
00:16:47.461 --> 00:16:53.370
It's been a thing since I've been a part of like the you you know quote unquote Christian music industry.
00:16:53.370 --> 00:17:06.368
There's so much facade that exists and I don't necessarily think that it's it's not like people are like hiding them.
00:17:06.368 --> 00:17:11.736
Well, it's like it's like people are are very much there're.
00:17:11.736 --> 00:17:32.030
It's like they're so certain that saying what feels like obvious to everyone, um, like like a critique or or you know what feels like too honest or like you know scary, honest or something like that, that that would like they're like so certain that it will be received poorly that it's never even an option.
00:17:32.030 --> 00:18:04.310
And I think I, like I I had a couple, so I signed a record deal back in like 2018 and kind of like quickly got exposed to the idea that like, oh, like, my music is not radio music and it's not necessarily church music and in in the again like industry side of things, that's basically like well, it's for no one.
00:18:07.747 --> 00:18:11.217
But the really cool thing is that, like the whole time, I've always loved playing shows.
00:18:11.217 --> 00:18:12.039
It's my favorite part of the whole time.
00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:13.222
I've always loved playing shows.
00:18:13.222 --> 00:18:29.689
It's my favorite part of the whole kind of artist thing and started playing these shows and people started coming to the shows and so I had this kind of like these, these opposing things, kind of, or like uh, it felt like it was like this.
00:18:29.689 --> 00:18:35.856
On one side it was like, ah, like your music it doesn't work for radio, it doesn't work for church, so it's like it's not for anybody.
00:18:35.856 --> 00:18:44.419
But then I would go and I'd play a show and people would show up and I'm like, well, these are people and so it has to be for like it's not for no one.
00:18:45.426 --> 00:19:00.989
And I think that was a pretty freeing experience to be like, well, I'm not trying to fit, you know, I'm not trying to be on a ccli, know, I'm not trying to be on a CCLI chart and I'm not trying to be on a radio chart, which means like the only reason that people are showing up is because I'm saying things that I believe in.
00:19:00.989 --> 00:19:31.230
And so I actually think, like the best thing I can do is say the things that I believe and just leaned into it hard and definitely like I, you know, to it hard and definitely like I, you know I couldn't probably be farther from a hit than I've ever been, but I'm definitely the most creatively fulfilled that I've ever been and that's uh, I would consider that worth it man yeah whatever it is, it's just.
00:19:31.372 --> 00:19:34.277
If a lot of people like it, that means that it's art right.
00:19:34.277 --> 00:19:40.334
If everybody listens to it, that means it's good right yeah, I think it was a mark.
00:19:40.354 --> 00:19:52.071
Yeah, totally right, I had kimi romano, something along the lines of like, the moment that you find yourself with the majority, it's a time to step back and think about your choices from mark Mark.
00:19:52.071 --> 00:19:52.874
Twain?
00:19:52.874 --> 00:19:53.895
I think that might be.
00:19:53.895 --> 00:19:54.999
I may be misquoting.
00:19:55.286 --> 00:19:58.811
If it is, he needs to think about his choices, because, he's one of the best authors there is.
00:19:59.984 --> 00:20:14.190
Well, I've asked that question in recent time that there's a lot of things that get put under the same umbrella that I don't really think have any business being under the same umbrella, like a category.
00:20:14.190 --> 00:20:29.772
There's like art and entertainment gets paired together a lot and I like that Venn diagram is they're not as overlapped as I would consider they often like get said to be.
00:20:29.772 --> 00:20:35.726
You know, like what's entertaining it's not necessarily art and art is not necessarily entertaining.
00:20:35.726 --> 00:21:19.034
But you know, sometimes those things get to coexist and I but I think they couldn't come from more opposing, like goal mindsets, I guess, like to set out to make something that's going to be like mass consumable, entertaining, easy to palette, versus like setting out to like make a statement or say something that is like hard or scary, or you know that you know might not be received well, like those couldn't be like more different, but then you know that is that they, they both can be called music or they both can be called cinema or they both can be called art.
00:21:19.034 --> 00:21:22.953
So it's kind of a confusing thing.
00:21:24.446 --> 00:21:31.534
It sounds like you just juxtaposed the idea of setting out to make something entertaining and then setting out just to be true.
00:21:31.534 --> 00:21:34.590
There's a big difference.
00:21:35.026 --> 00:21:43.334
I'm thinking about business, and some people go into business just to make money and some people go because they love the thing.
00:21:43.334 --> 00:21:45.391
There's a huge difference there.
00:21:45.672 --> 00:21:50.914
Yeah, I don't know People that make art, don't.
00:21:50.914 --> 00:22:03.696
There's this concept of you need to work from the inspiration that's within you, not seek to create what everybody else wants Like.
00:22:03.696 --> 00:22:10.215
You're made in the image of God, uniquely right, and your experiences are one of a kind.
00:22:10.215 --> 00:22:39.230
And so there's a certain reflection, certain color, certain resonance that comes from Chris Rimsoma that unless he's actually honest and sincere, we'll never hear those notes from heaven, we'll never see those reflections, and so it almost feels to me like there's a demand from the world and from heaven for you to be authentically who you're made to be, but that demand is almost like the voice of silence, like it's not supported by the masses.
00:22:40.414 --> 00:22:42.243
Yeah, no, I think that's right.
00:22:42.243 --> 00:22:44.607
I think there's.
00:22:44.607 --> 00:23:12.857
I was literally just talking to a friend this morning about kind of this same thing, like how, uh, like I want to be someone and I think, like most people, if they like dig down behind, like motives and stuff, like I think I, like, I want, I want to be someone who, like contributes well to like the whole.
00:23:12.857 --> 00:23:13.598
You know what I mean.
00:23:13.598 --> 00:23:34.608
Like I don't want to just make noise and I don't want to just like, uh, we were talking about how many sorry this is, like I might be like making your worst podcast episode ever, um, but I promise you can't, okay, okay, um, we were talking about, uh, drop shipping.
00:23:35.190 --> 00:23:49.528
You guys know about like that, oh yeah, and basically how it's like okay, there's like this whole trend now of people who, like they don't make the product, they just sell the product and it like shows.
00:23:49.528 --> 00:24:21.392
You know, it's like this whole thing where it's like to be rather cynical, which I have a bent towards, it's like to me I'm like it kind of just feels like we're just we're exchanging money and we're filling landfills and that just feels kind of bad and like I would hope that whatever I'm doing in my life is attempting to contribute something, not just like, you know exchange currency and you know use things, I guess.
00:24:21.392 --> 00:24:31.192
And I do think that there's a that's kind of your split in the road as far as, like, art v?
00:24:31.192 --> 00:24:36.647
Um entertainment, which entertainment maybe is just sales at the end of the day?
00:24:36.647 --> 00:24:38.853
Um, I don't.
00:24:38.853 --> 00:24:42.538
Yeah, it's great, if you know you're a salesman, get after it.
00:24:42.538 --> 00:24:44.047
Uh, that's just not.
00:24:44.426 --> 00:24:53.398
I'm not a salesman, so I'm not interested but note to don't pitch Chris a dropshipping idea.
00:24:54.140 --> 00:24:54.701
Do not.
00:24:55.968 --> 00:24:56.107
Yeah.
00:24:56.107 --> 00:25:01.028
We went in here with a plan and that was it.
00:25:01.048 --> 00:25:07.905
I know that this was all going to dovetail into that, but not interested Also.
00:25:07.945 --> 00:25:09.993
have you heard of Amway oh?
00:25:10.034 --> 00:25:12.792
man, you want to know a fun fact about Amway.
00:25:12.813 --> 00:25:14.084
Oh man, you want to know a fun fact about.
00:25:14.104 --> 00:25:14.204
Amway.
00:25:14.204 --> 00:25:24.721
So I grew up in Grand Rapids, michigan, and I lived like half a mile from Amway's world headquarters.
00:25:24.721 --> 00:25:34.555
Holy crap, this giant factory that just like polluted the river and it was just, you know, literally on my way to school.
00:25:34.555 --> 00:25:38.253
Every day past like a two mile stretch of just factory.
00:25:38.253 --> 00:25:43.930
It's crazy talk about adding to the landfill, it's like killing fish.
00:25:43.930 --> 00:25:44.932
It's a bad vibe.
00:25:44.932 --> 00:25:45.273
I'm not.
00:25:45.314 --> 00:25:52.973
I don't support it all right, so check that off the list I work for amway.
00:25:52.973 --> 00:26:03.221
Yeah, I'm anti-dropship, anti-mlm yeah, I love your worst podcast ever and my thoughts are.
00:26:03.221 --> 00:26:05.626
You know there's been podcasts with just me and grant on them.
00:26:05.626 --> 00:26:10.255
We're not that is true, it's already a win.
00:26:10.255 --> 00:26:13.019
There's somebody else here, yeah that's a fact.
00:26:14.060 --> 00:26:15.262
Um, I had a.
00:26:15.262 --> 00:26:34.220
I actually asked a friend that's like a massive you know music nerd and went to school for music and just one of my best friends, and I sent him some of your stuff and he said, uh, dude, this guy is really awesome, he's really musical.
00:26:34.220 --> 00:26:40.711
And I basically just asked him I was like not being facetious, what does that mean?
00:26:40.711 --> 00:26:44.335
And he said, well, because I'm a foodie.
00:26:44.335 --> 00:26:53.952
And he said, well, if certain music is just like a peanut butter sandwich, then this guy's stuff is like a lasagna, like it's just layered and solid.
00:26:56.269 --> 00:27:02.907
I was like, well, give me your thought of a question for something you've always been burning to ask for an artist.
00:27:02.907 --> 00:27:06.708
And I thought this was really solid, but it's also in line with what we're talking about.
00:27:06.708 --> 00:27:27.676
And so he said in a day and age where it seems as though everything has been said and so much has already been sung, where do you find the will and desire or confidence to stick your musical flag in the ground and say hear ye, hear ye, hear me, and shout out to John Dewey, my boy.
00:27:27.676 --> 00:27:38.289
But what I guess is still coming up in my mind is like how do you maintain that confidence to keep putting your flag in the ground with the next thing.
00:27:39.505 --> 00:27:44.196
Yeah, I mean, I think there's kind of a couple ways you can look at it.
00:27:44.196 --> 00:28:52.936
I mean, like in, in one sense, when I first started writing um, um, a lot of the reason I became a writer is the desire to work out something in me, um, so, like you know, when I was writing my first ever songs, they were, you know, trying to process my relationship with God and uh, what I, you know, understood about that, and it's kind of always been that, and so I think that's important as far as, like any expression that, like you at least, start with yourself as like quote, unquote, like the odd sorry I've said quote, unquote a lot, but I'm doing air quotes you just can't um, like you're the audience, you're the first audience, I guess, for anything that you make, and so I think it's like, if for nothing else, it's expressing something that you need to get out, then I think that's worthwhile, even if there's not like a greater kind of audience for what you're doing.
00:28:52.936 --> 00:29:09.275
And I, I think, for myself, like you know, there are like everything is you know you're, you only have 12 notes and you only have so many chords and so many words, and the thing that is actually still unique.
00:29:09.275 --> 00:29:27.727
That I think makes things worth saying is, like you, your experience is unique, and so if you're like willing and able to put that into your song, then there's actually something fresh to say and something that I think is worthwhile to share.
00:29:27.727 --> 00:29:36.185
And yeah, I think where, I think, where a lot of writers go wrong is this, especially in Christian music.
00:29:36.827 --> 00:30:17.368
I think it's just bad advice is this idea that, like a song needs to have like universality in order to be, um, like relatable or appealing, and I've just like found that to be kind of the opposite of the truth, like, um, you know, we, we are, you know, I guess, if you're not a sociopath, we have like empathy on purpose, Like they're, like we're created to, um, you know, understand each other's experiences that aren't our own experiences, and to be able to like read into and relate.
00:30:17.368 --> 00:30:44.740
And so, you know, holy Ghost, like you mentioned earlier that song, like that example of you know being at the pop-up revival, like that actually happened to me and I'm sure for a lot of people that's not their experience, but I think the experience of asking a question that you feel like you're not supposed to ask, that is something that probably everyone has felt at some point.
00:30:44.740 --> 00:31:09.288
And so you know, we weren't all in Grand Rapids at a you know know aggressive outdoor church meetup, but we were, you know, all kind of growing up figuring out things, asking questions about god and uh truth and um, yeah, can like see each other in those things.
00:31:09.288 --> 00:31:13.776
So now I'm just rambling, but something like that dude.
00:31:15.178 --> 00:31:30.607
that makes me think god and prozac, by the way, is is pretty unreal as far as like the honesty by it, because first of all, just the title of the song, it's like immediately it's like okay, this isn't steven curtis chapman.
00:31:30.607 --> 00:31:34.356
Like this is, this is something a little different.
00:31:34.356 --> 00:31:45.713
And just by the way, I have bipolar, so just the, it's like bipolar two or something, it's whatever gives you the old manic episode every now and again.
00:31:45.713 --> 00:31:47.932
The old episode.
00:31:48.285 --> 00:31:52.452
The old episode will get you every time, but I don't know.
00:31:52.525 --> 00:32:09.798
I just thought the honesty about the mental illness struggle was pretty huge and because it's not like you, like you know, laid in and you were like, oh man, you know there's no hope, kind of thing, it was just like this is what I'm feeling right now.
00:32:10.038 --> 00:32:18.976
Like I I have been taking meds and that seems kind of weird because I'm writing a bunch of christian songs and that dude.
00:32:18.976 --> 00:32:21.262
That resonated hard with me.
00:32:21.262 --> 00:32:40.253
Maybe that's not a universal thing, but I was just like, yeah, dude, whatever that feeling is of like being like man, I am a broken human being and God is good, I want to bring glory to God, but also like man, we're just broken vessels.
00:32:40.253 --> 00:32:58.933
Like it's not even close, and just the honesty that you take Prozac or whatever it is it doesn't have to be mental illness, but just being able to wear that on your sleeve and actually like be honest about it, I think truly helps people.
00:32:58.933 --> 00:33:09.611
Just it's like, oh, I can be a Christian beyond medicine and it's okay to feel kind of weird about it, like I don't know.
00:33:09.611 --> 00:33:13.474
I thought that was really valuable to me personally.
00:33:14.465 --> 00:33:15.573
Yeah, I'm glad, man.
00:33:15.573 --> 00:34:18.393
I think that song, like you're saying it's maybe not a universal experience that I hope conveys is like this sort of, you know, the kind of paradoxical nature of like the already not yet thing that we hear, where it's like you know, like yes, like there's like redemption, there's healing, but it's like also in process and it's and it's now, but it's later, and it's like also in process and it's and it's now, but it's later, and it's, you know, and and that isn't all tidy, uh and neat all the time, and I think, uh, yeah, I'm glad to hear that that it's relatable, because that that definitely was one song where I was like ooh, like really throwing out some info here A little spooky.
