That’s a Rap | Isaac “PEABOD” Peabody | Episode 18

Speaker 2: 0:15

Hi, this is Grant Lockridge and Jared Tafton. On the Across the Counter podcast. We create space for real people to have honest conversations. Today we're interviewing Peabody.

Speaker 3: 0:39

Yeah, thanks for having me, you guys. Yeah, so I think the first thing is, why are people calling me Peabody? When I was in, before I started releasing any music as Peabody, it was just a college nickname. My full name's Isaac Peabody. There were two Isis and our friend group, and they're like one of you has a nickname, and so they started calling me Peabody. He just got to be Isaac, which I felt was a little unfair. I'm walking around with this made up name and he's like yeah, don't buy my birth name, it's a cool biblical name. I was like I had that too. Anyways, I started writing songs when I was like 15 and just really fell in love with the process. I had kind of a terrible high school experience and so I really like songwriting was. I just threw myself into it and that was really helpful for me. I'm not saying the songs I was writing during that time were good, but it was helpful for me for walking through what I was walking through, and so I brought that into college and just kept writing and kept honing my craft and eventually my senior year of college I started releasing some like singer, songwriter music, independently acoustic folk stuff, and I did two EPs in that style and really enjoyed it. But I the second of the two EPs was a little bit like heavier subject matter. I've been writing songs for a long time. Started in high school, took that into college and in college I started releasing music, started playing around with recording software and it was a fun journey to learn how to take the songs in my head that were just like written out in a notebook and put them into something digital that I could share with the world. So I did two EPs of like singer songwriter music, very informed by the Mumford and Sons come up in the early 2010s and really loved making that kind of music but got just after the second EP of those two singer songwriter EPs. I was writing really like heavy subject matter, just doing a lot of soul searching as one does when you're in an early 20 something. And yep, we've all been there and I just got to a point where I was like you know what? I just need to do something fun, just like a palette cleanser. And I had been a fan of hip hop for a long time but I had always been like, look at me, I can't rap. Look at my face, this is not the face of a rapper. And so I had been making beats like for fun, like with no purpose, but I had never been like, oh yeah, I'm going to be the artist on these beats. And then one day I was like, why not Like? Why not just play around with it? And specifically, one artist that really inspired me to do that is Chance. The Rapper. Coloring Book had come out around that time and there is so much like joy in his music and I hadn't really heard like so much of hip hop. There's a lot of being very serious or trying to be like the toughest, whatever you want to call it, which I'm a fan of that style too, but that's not going to work for me. So in hearing Chance, I was like whoa, like you can like. It showed me the freedom that you could have in that genre, which really, I feel like where I've landed now is more like the pop, hip hop, like crossover, and so I was like you know what I'm just going to? I'm just going to give this your shot and just have fun with it. And so I, over the course of a year, I started making beats and started writing and put out this album independently called Healthy Snacks, which the kind of cheesy metaphor behind that was like, in the same way that, like Healthy Snacks are good for your body, like fun, happy music is good for your soul, that was like the idea, and so I just allowed myself to be free and just to play and I really enjoyed the process and ended up getting a record deal out of that project. We remastered it and re-released it and added a song and then I worked with that label for five years and we put out a lot of music together and had a lot of fun. And then I've been independent for the last year and now I'm starting to release music independently again, which is super exciting. Still got a ton of love for the label, but just a different part of the journey. So that's like a 30,000 foot overview of my songwriting journey. Yeah, it's been super fun and I tell people a lot because all have kids come up to me at shows and ask, like my advice for songwriting, which is super humbling because I wouldn't consider myself like wow, look at this super successful songwriter, like I don't have plaques or I'm not making millions of dollars or whatever, and there are guys doing that off songwriting. I'm very grateful for my position, but it's always crazy when people ask for my advice on that, but what I try to say to them is man, if you just keep digging into songwriting and falling more and more in love with it, that's going to be a companion for life, regardless of how much of your career it makes up. Because I'm full time, this is my full time job now, doing music, and I really enjoy it. And also there was a long season where I was working really hard and had two other jobs and was releasing music on the side, and that doesn't mean the art that I made then was any like less or didn't have the opportunity to do something. In my own life too, I found that the more I write songs because I need them, the more I love that process, and so I have every intention to be writing some sweet old man songs when I'm in my 70s and they probably won't sound like what I'm making now. I probably won't be jumping around on stage, but I plan on writing as long as I'm able to, because it's just. I feel it's been such a safe place for me. I feel like the Lord meets me there, and I think it's. I think, being in America, we can often any hobby we can go like how can I monetize this or how can I make this my job and sometimes that's good, because you wanna do something. That's everyone wants to do, something that they love like I'm grateful that this is my job, but also I think that sometimes it's important to be able to go. This is valuable, whether or not it makes me any money, and the Lord can use this in my life and maybe in other people's lives too. Regardless of that, it makes me any money and anything else is just a bonus. Yeah, so that's my plug for songwriting. It's super fun. You should try it.

Speaker 2: 7:07

That's super solid.

Speaker 4: 7:09

Yeah, that feels like a challenge. Like we had a comedian, an artist, in one of our last interviews and we talked about the idea of like creative freedom and then needing to pay your rent. And there is a world in which, like, you can love being an electrician or you can love being a carpenter and you can find some artistic avenue in your work but, I feel like what is commonly considered the arts is a even more like all or nothing endeavor. Does that feel, does that make sense? Like your heart is in something and either it gets a claim or it doesn't. But it was true to your heart, do you like? How do you feel like you've waged that war? Because when you mentioned in high school that was why it started you had to write.

Speaker 3: 7:59

So what does that?

Speaker 4: 8:00

look like now.

Speaker 3: 8:02

Oh man, yeah, that's really good. It's super interesting. Has it hit you this? I feel like it's always doorkeeping when people quote their own music, but I've, I've thrown this out there, oh I got it. I've thrown this out there just because this is a song I wrote recently, so I'm very much thinking about this exact topic. I have this song called Deep Cuts. That's really about like that tension between going I'm an artist and this is how I pay my rent, and so there's a line on it where I say, oh, now I'm gonna forget it. Every artist has to ask this question how to hold art and money in tension, and I think that's because when I was 15, writing songs in my room, I was like I was doing this because I was lonely. I had a group of friends that I came into high school with. That really all flaked on me when I started doing it's called Running Start. Out here it might be like dual enrollment. I don't know what state you guys are in, but no, I gotcha. Yeah, I was doing like my AA while I was in high school, at the community college, and so I'd come back and, like all these friends that I'd gone through school with just acted like they didn't know me anymore, and so I was just like, oh my gosh, I feel so on the outside and excluded and lonely, and so I started writing songs and letting my feelings come out on the pages, and so that was just this like pure expression of, yeah, safe place, this isn't for anyone, I'm just doing this. And now I've got a wife and we've got a rent we gotta pay, we've got other bills, and this is my whole job. And so I'm like, yeah, how do I go into making a record and not think about keep that spirit alive? I need this for me, without going, I need to make a song that's gonna make it easier to pay the bills, cause that's the. It's difficult, and we all know artists I'm not thinking of anyone specific, but we've all seen people where it feels like, oh, you're prioritizing what's gonna sell over what's actually true to you, or something that is actually gonna like, minister, to where you're at in this season and again, I'm not calling anyone out specifically, I think with the wave of TikTok and artists blowing up on TikTok, I think there's so many people chasing the thing that will work for the algorithm and letting that influence all of their art and obviously, as a good business person like you, have to think of those things. But I really think you guys know who Rick Rubin is, that he's one of the most legendary producers and he like produced for LL Cool J like way back at the birth of hip hop, and now he's producing for Harry Styles. Anyways, he talks about okay he's a legend. He's got like a big white beards grant. If you keep growing and over the next 40 years you could look like Rick Rubin. It would be sick.

Speaker 2: 10:52

I'm gonna go for it down to my chest belly button and just go all the way. It'll be nuts. My wife won't let me though.

Speaker 3: 11:00

Full gain doll Almost 100% Full gain doll. I love it, but he talks about he's. Arguably he's reached the ceiling of success, like you can't get bigger in terms of notoriety. Everyone wants to work with Rick Rubin, but he says you have the art has to be I'm gonna butcher the quote, but it's basically like the audience or the purpose always has to come second. It has to be the art first, and then you think about who is this for, where does this belong? And I think that's pretty significant, coming from a guy who I'm sure has record companies like reading down his neck, help us sell this thing, and he's no. We have to be true to the art first and then you get to make the business plan around that. So, to answer your question, that's what I would like to say. I'm trying to deal all the time, but it's really easy especially now as an independent artist and I'd call myself a business owner to go. I have all these other responsibilities too, and it's I'm trying to learn how to segment my time so I can go. This is protected, I'm working on art, I'm letting this be what it's gonna be and I'm gonna let the business flow out of this, because I think also, as believers, I think that the Lord leads me to different things in my life, depending on what I might need to be writing about. And if I'm just thinking of what kind of song is going to work well on social media and that's always my first motivation it might be harder to dig into things where I'm like oh, actually I feel like I need to write about my anxiety or whatever, and I don't know. I'm rambling, but I think you know what I'm trying to say here.

Speaker 4: 12:45

So we were talking about creativity and the ability to produce but not be focused on the production. So a bizarre thing about that is, whatever comes out, often art is looking like producers are looking for a market standard, like we need to repeat this thing that was successful, right, but what's weird about that is when there's a new creative masterpiece, it changes the standard, and so I imagine it's impossibly difficult for an artist to constantly have the pressure of do it again, when whatever you're called to do again wasn't a thing that was done before. So how for you, isaac Like at the end of the day, you have a wife, you have bills, you have family like it feels like an extreme faith exercise to say I'm going to step out and just trust that there's going to be new creative potential and not and we're not going to drown. You already said you're in that place and this is like a rambling question now. But the last part of that is I'm thinking about I used to do like sales management and with my sales guys. The one thing that you can't like, the only thing that's unhelpable, is if you're constantly changing your tactic, if every time you go in the front door, you do something different and so you can't build upon anything because there's no record. So I love, while I go at the end of what you were saying, if we captured it. You said you're trying to carve out time and build in disciplines so that, like the simple disciplines you can repeat may produce the next creative work. So just like rant back at me on that, a little bit there's no question in there as much. Like you're writing a song about that. Like just go for it.

Speaker 3: 14:38

No, that's perfect, I definitely. Yeah, I'm thinking about all of that a lot because it is interesting, because I don't know there are. I feel like Adele is a really good example of kind of the first part of your question there, like when her record 21 came out in, I think, like 2011, which had set fire to the rain and rolling in the deep, which were completely different. Oh, she also had that song Somebody Like you. That was just piano vocal. That was the first number one. I remember this was like the first number one on the Billboard charts. That was just piano vocal in 40 years or something. It was like it was super, not on trend for what she was doing, but she has this incredible voice and this charisma and that record sold like crazy and then everyone wanted to sound like Adele for a decade after that, everyone wanted to get another rolling in the deep and it was wild, and so there are people like this all the time who come along and they go. I'm just doing my thing and it's going to be different, and then everyone has to catch up to where they are. Because, yeah, I think it's really easy to feel like the industries are the same as the human beings and the fans who interact with stuff, and because everyone wants to claim that they have the masses figured out and they know what's going to be a smash with the general public, and that's. No one has that entirely figured out. There are things that, like Taylor Swift records are going to do great always, but that's because so much of the world is already a fan of her. She doesn't have to win new people over.

Speaker 4: 16:25

But Coca-Cola is going to get Scott momentum.

Speaker 3: 16:28

Okay, yes, I think they're going to make it. It's going to be all right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 16:33

T Swift has momentum Like she can. It doesn't matter whatever she wants Exactly.

Speaker 2: 16:38

Exactly, coke stock goes to zero. The second we say that they're going to make it, they're going to be fine. Oh my goodness, there's something in there that's a problem. Something I do. I do want to hit on too. Something you said, isaac, that was really cool is and this is something that I've felt with we've started like trying to ride a little bit and we've been doing this podcast and we're getting more. We've always been creative, ish, but we're actually like trying to do creative things and have fun with them, and I love the idea of just like being able to get out of your own way and just like doing it for the fun of it and not too much market it and be like because we could probably make a quote unquote successful podcast if we like the line by line of what the market trends are, whatever, but both of our hearts behind it is we just want to interview people that we think are interesting and yet we want to hear points of view that are different than ours, and just that's our thing, and I think that it's super valuable what you said of just you never want to lose. Just like that, doing it for like the fun of it. Of because something that I've found, too, is like me and my buddy were about to move to like somewhere to make it big in the music industry, like after, because I played drums, he plays keys. We were playing around, we were about I was about to graduate from college and I was about to take the money I had and just like rock and roll, go on the road and just do a 21 pilots thing with this guy. And then somewhere along the way, like we started like thinking about like how we were going to make it, like the monetization of it, and we started trying to listen to artists and replicate what they had and stuff like that, so that we could make it big, because we were like if we fail, this is not going to be fun kind of thing. And then something I've learned pretty recently is just that you never want to just lose the fun of it, of just making things that you want to make. And I feel like that's really cool that you're out of that record label, like not saying record labels are bad or anything, but it does give you the freedom to be like all right, if I want to put out whatever I want, I have the freedom to be able to do that. That's that's chance to rapper 101. Everybody wants them on a record label and he's like I'm just going to do it and I'm going to make it happen. That's just a really cool thing you said about just like keeping it fun and not thinking too hard about monetization, and then what does that?

Speaker 4: 19:17

what does that look like? What does that look like, isaac, for like your identity, because a lot of that, a lot of what we're talking about is whatever is produced is directly related to your heart, like your identity. But that's also a changing project. Yeah, what does that look? What has that looked like? And what does that look like for you to look? All of us look back on work we have done and we're like man, who's that guy? But then you look forward and you're like man, where are we going? It's like frustration when you look back and indecision or uncertainty when you look forward. What do you feel about where you're at right now, like where Isaac Peabody's at, like how do you feel about where you've been, where you're going about that Stepping from the record label to where you are now? That's a big deal.

Speaker 3: 20:04

Yep, yeah, yeah, it's, it's crazy, I feel like. So I just turned 30 this month and so naturally there's like a lot of reflection that comes with, which is silly because it's just another birthday, but it's 30. 30 is different.

Speaker 2: 20:23

I just wanted my buddies 30th birthday party and it did hit different because I'm 27. But it did hit different just to see that and it was like happy birthday. And then it was like okay, the next big one is 40.

Speaker 4: 20:38

Yeah almost every hero journey in scripture of all the light guys, david, jesus, like Joshua, a lot of those different guys it was at 30 that real, moving into your life's calling per se.

Speaker 3: 20:49

Totally.

Speaker 4: 20:50

Happy 30th birthday.

Speaker 3: 20:52

Oh, thank you.

Speaker 2: 20:53

All right, thank you Time to time to make it big yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:57

This is when it happened.

Speaker 4: 21:00

It started on this podcast.

Speaker 3: 21:06

No, I think that I think that, just honestly, much of being 29, ramping up into 30, was. I just spent a lot of time looking back and going okay, it's a new decade, it's the first decade I feel like I'm actually entering feeling like an adult a little bit Not that I have it all figured out, but now it doesn't take my entire brain to do a load of laundry, like when you turn 20, you're like how do I go to the grocery store? I get that. It's overwhelming. So going. Okay, I've entered this decade with fresh perspective and just a tiny bit more wisdom than maybe when I was 20. And I think it's fun to look back. So, like Healthy Snacks, for example, I started writing that when I was 23. And there is there's a lot on that record that I still believe in and I'm still proud of, but I understand it at deeper levels, or I'm digging into it at deeper levels Now. The whole point of Healthy Snacks was, like every little bit of joy we experience in this life, like every good thing the Bible says every good thing is a gift from the Father. That's not the exact quote, but like my philosophy is, like man, when you're hanging out with your friends out of 30th birthday party in, or when you eat a really good meal or you listen to good music, like those are little glimpses of God's goodness, like those are coming from him because he loves you. That's his work, and so that's something that I had on a pretty surface level with Healthy Snacks, but that I've really been digging into more and more in just seeing the Lord's kindness. And it's really interesting you brought up like people stepping into their calling and their 30s. I saw this really interesting clip from Stephanie Gretzinger from, I think she's like in the Bethel community. She was on a podcast recently and she said we can get so caught up in what is her calling, when Jesus only called us to himself, and that that was super significant for me because I think it's really easy. I do think that the Lord calls us to things. I think that he leads us in different directions and gives us skills and desires to move us to do specific things, but ultimately, yes, we are called to Jesus first, and I think that I've been thinking about that a lot moving into being in my 30s going. I want to reframe my idea of like success and failure, because I think that People talk about living in a success failure mindset as actually being a negative thing, because if you have this goal in mind and you're not there, then you're failing. That's the alternative. Instead of going, I'm always growing and I'm changing, and so I I've been doing in the last really six months. I've just been doing a lot of work, talking with my wife and my friends going. I can't make success going when I really blow up, then I'm successful. Or when I make this amount of money or have this amount of Fans or like the really like Christian way to slice. It is when I have this amount of influence or impact for the kingdom.

Speaker 4: 24:13

Yeah, impact baby.

Speaker 3: 24:19

It's hard, though, because it's like the Lord uses that I. God uses people with big platforms all the time, and so I and I think that there are people who do that well, but it's a it's an absolute mistake to say that is more valuable than the small town pastor who has 30 people in his congregation, who has a carpentry business as his main gig. Those are both valuable. I don't think God is putting more weight on saying this person was a more successful believer and human being because they had two million followers on instagram and because this person pastoring this community in the middle of nowhere Is going deeper with these people than someone on social media can, and that's not to say this isn't valuable either, but it's just. It can't be success failure, because there are different kinds of things that, like who knows where we're gonna land? You know what I'm saying. Does that make sense?

Speaker 4: 25:16

Yeah, you know, what's weird about that is that really comes down to this idea of worth and identity, because success or failure is often directly related to am I worthy, do I matter? Does anybody care? Can I prove myself? And it puts you into in the box or not in the box. Either I'm in the family, I'm not in the family. It's all about this saved or not saved, and we're not even gonna give them that. But if your goal is to get people saved, show me what the kpis are like, the key performance indicators of how you're gonna make that happen. Yeah, if your goal, and then where? Like at what point are they saved? If they fall away? If they don't? But then if your goal is to see people move closer to the heart of god, I have some disciplines and key performance indicators for how that would work. If your goal is to make beautiful Work that you derive joy from, there's some key performance indicators based on your family, your life, your body, your health, like here's some things you should do so that you're healthy enough to produce work that you derive joy from. But I love what you said. I've never used these words before, but like you gave it back to me, it's if I feel like jesus is almost saying, like there's a difference between your calling and then the work by which you derive joy. You can be called unto the heart of christ. That's your calling, and then there can be works that you participate in that produce energy in you, life in you, and then, because they're genuine, they produce energy in life and other people. But yeah, I'm confused, does that?

Speaker 3: 26:52

make sense at all. I think it's exactly what you said about worth. It's jesus calls them to To himself and says you are worthy because I say so, because I paid the price for you. That's where your worth comes from. And then our work gets to be in like an outpouring of I'm already, I'm good, my worth isn't coming from what I'm about to do it, because it's coming from christ. And then the work gets to be truly free and actually be like a blessing to yourself and other people, because it doesn't have the expectation that this is going to save them huge.

Speaker 2: 27:26

That's good Something I want to add too. Actually, this is something my dad said today while we were playing pickleball, which is just taking the world by storm.

Speaker 4: 27:35

Grandslam is a legend as well, that guy's awesome and he does listen to this podcast.

Speaker 2: 27:41

So shout out to dad Steve Lockerjie, if you're listening, you're the man, thank you. So he watched this netflix documentary I think it's on netflix and it's like people that have lived to a hundred. So it's like people that have the secrets to long life and longevity in different places, and there's some place in san francisco and there's a place in japan and different places, and one of them's like A seventh day adventist group. That's basically like a cultish thing. But where I'm going with this Is that there are things that that are in the bible that are put there, at least in my understanding, for human flourishing. So I I truly believe that there's calling, and there's we're called to be closer to christ. We're called to Pursue him as he pursues us kind of thing, which he pursued us first, so we need to not get that backwards. But also the idea of just the whole thing about that show is one of the things that helps you live to a hundred or that are like Common things. That they do is like the community aspect, so they've lived life in a tight-knit community. Another one is the kpi, or key performance indicator, of Just doing a little bit of light exercise in community and it just kept on. Community kept on coming up over and over again and it was just like huh, I wonder what the bible says about that. Is the bible have a community? And it's obviously like Most of the new testament. A lot of it is unity and community and effusion, like all that stuff In the church and there's some other things that I'm totally missing. But he told me like a bunch of things and it was like, if that doesn't sound like the bible, of what they're, what made them live to a hundred. I'm not saying, if you follow whatever, you live to a hundred, but it's just. It was super interesting because I came to that kind of conclusion of just the bible have has things in it, at least to me, of that it's in there for human flourishing instead of this is a rule. This is sin. It's just put there for your good. This is a way as humans can flourish. So that was just something that kind of came to me today. Bye.

Speaker 4: 30:06

This is, yeah, this feels like a final thought. I know, isaac, you need to go because we had a bunch of technical difficulties, so, like, the piece of that that I think is impactful and powerful is that we are placed in community for one another, and so we should be a space where, if you have the courage to actually write songs that, like man, that's beautiful and encouraging and valuable Like how much more beauty would there be if the church in the body of Christ was like. You wrote a poem, bro, let me hear that. Get that out here. There's so much of that. The dude that's, like you said, going into your 20s, into that deep dark hole of emotion and like writing, like somebody needs to be listening to that and saying I validate you and I care about you. And so thank you for having the courage, isaac, to even just write and just put yourself out there because it really is. You're just bearing your heart and soul before the world. So that's powerful and important to us as well. So thank you.

Speaker 3: 31:06

Oh, thank you, that means a lot. I think, yeah, I think that, yeah, just back to what you were saying, Grant. I feel like it really is crazy, even like looking back at the Old Testament to going like people are doing crazy stuff in the Old Testament man. And so all the like 10 commandments, like the Lord's going, don't kill each other. Be, faithful to your spouse and it's he's not doing that to take away their fun. This is not ending well for anybody. Also, it's sin, it's bad, but you are going to be so much better off if you live by, if you live the way I've designed for you to live. And so I think, like the community aspect to your point, Jared, it's like I think that it's in a safe community that we are all wanting to belong and that's what we get to look forward to in heaven someday. And so all the efforts that we make today on earth to go like how can I make this space safe? So, like this podcast, for example, I think is a good example where it's we don't really know each other, we just met, but we're going hey, we're just going to talk, we're going to explore some themes together and and make it a safe place to, to share our stories, and I think that's what that's. The idea for the church in general is this is a place where you can come with your brokenness and where people are going to love you and say I can't fix you, but Jesus can, and then we're going to, we're going to walk through all the messiness together, because that's what we do. And yeah, man, I think that's a. I think it's a great way to put a little bow on it, because I think that's the other thing that that I'm trying to learn how to push back on is, again, our current situation with social media and the idea of celebrity. I think a lot of us are going uh, the goal is to be the guy, the goal is to be the influencer or the leader, and oftentimes that image is built up without a community around them. And I need to receive just as much as I'm writing songs and putting them out into the world. But I am also getting life from friends who are writing amazing music, people I don't know who are writing amazing music. My church community, my, my small group around me like I can't. It's supposed to be this ever like all of us supporting each other. Now, Look, this one dude is doing it. So, anyways, I can keep going forever, but yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:24

Thanks for listening to the across the counter podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate us five stars, wherever you got this podcast, thank you.