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Join us Across The Counter from : Landon Macdonald
An inspiring church leader and visionary leader with Theos University.
Our conversation takes you on an intellectual journey, where we uncover bizarre yet fascinating facts about the Bible; tales of its ubiquitous presence and its intriguing relationship with American history.
In this ATC Episode:
• The Bible’s most stolen book status
• We delve into the foundations of Theos University, a cutting-edge seminary platform.
• The spiritual gifts of prophecy and unique perspectives on women in ministry.
• We wrestle with the dichotomy between the people of the Word and people of the Spirit, contemplating its implications.
• As we reminisce the power of podcasts and documentaries in sharing personal experiences, we stress the importance of standing against the wrong and appreciating the good in people, regardless of their flaws.
Tune in to join us on this spiritual voyage packed with engaging discussions and insightful revelations!
Connect with Landon:
Instagram: @iamlandonmacdonald
Beliefs espoused by the guests of ATC are not necessarily the beliefs and convictions of ATC.
That said the intent of our podcast is to listen, remain curious and never fear failure In the discovery life giving truth. Many people we ardently disagree with have been our greatest teachers.
I like that you're. The name of your little room is Spurgeon Cigar Spot.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Yeah, I think I named it that to try to offend someone at another point in time.
Speaker 3:That's a good start, dude, so I was watching your. I went through a little bit. Is it Pheos or Pheos University? Pheos, does that feel right?
Speaker 2:I think so. Yeah, I think it's Pheos.
Speaker 3:Oh god, and I was looking at your little crazy Bible facts or whatever like new stuff. You got any of those for me Because that was actually super entertaining. I watched like 15 of those or whatever amount you had on there. Those are fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got about 50 of them. I found some of those stories really interesting. I don't know. There's like random, like connections with the Bible and America that are so intriguing to me. One of them was there's like an obelisk in Central Park and there's three things buried underneath it and there's some sort of like free masonry thing plus like a full copy of the Bible, and I always find stuff like that so interesting. It's like this book that I care so much about and study every day. But it's in these like random stories in history. I think the best one is some guy when an interviewed the owner of one of the largest bookseller like independent booksellers in like Austin Texas, and he was like the guy was like what book gets stolen the most and he was like the Bible by far Interesting.
Speaker 3:So, weird the. Bible gets stolen, I guess that's a good book to steal and then they read it and they give it back or something. They read it and it's oh no, do not steal. At some point in it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's pretty chill, awesome man. So how'd you end up at Theos and getting into all the Bible stuff and I assume you went to a Bible college or did something like that Totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, went thanks for asking, went to Moody Bible Institute, got saved as a child and so it's committed my life to Christ actually at some point there and was in Bible school learning, loved that school and the guys that founded Theos, or a couple friends, long-term friends of mine, nathan and Gabe Finocchio. I've known them forever and they had called me up and I was I think I was at a music festival. I was at like a music festival in Lake Paris, california, like trying to see the band Divos Reunion and Nathan called me and was like dude, I'm like starting this thing, and when he explained it I was just like man, it's so brilliant, so needed, and I just loved everything about it. So it's been really cool to be like a founder of it and be a part of it since it started and be able to, yeah, just teach the Bible like in that creative space has been really exciting, and I think I was a youth pastor for a long time and so I'm very used to working with teenagers and people who who maybe are still deciding if they're interested in God in general or even in what you're talking about, and so being in a spot like Theos where it's behind a paywall everybody that's there obviously wants to be there is pretty exciting because there's a lot more theology. I suppose that you can teach in a short amount of time in that type of space.
Speaker 3:So describe to me what it is, because I know it's pseudo accredited or something like how does, how do you get a degree?
Speaker 1:I was gonna ask what is the pitch that you got that made you?
Speaker 3:I dig that. That's a better question.
Speaker 1:Now that's your question. I just that was exactly what came to me.
Speaker 2:I love it. Dude. Your co-host is like bro, I heard your question, but what if there was a better one?
Speaker 3:And he nailed it.
Speaker 1:There was like that's what I was trying to ask and I was gonna go for six sentences, so I dig it, I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it. I can answer them both. Theos is Netflix for theology. Theos University is in the process of accreditation, which takes a very long time. I don't think that completion is necessary to bring to it the value that it already has, which I think is shown by the amount of users and all that stuff. It is it. Theos seminary is also in the process of getting accredited, which is like the higher tier, and there we are teaching people college and master's degree level courses in there for such a lower price, which I think is really exciting. A few colleges have already started to accept credits, transfer credits in Florida and a few other ones, which is really cool. What was the pitch? The pitch was hey, bro, you want to do a bunch of work for free Because it was Christian, and Christians don't get paid. Exactly. Yeah, hey, you've been a youth pastor. You're very comfortable with an alpha male telling you to do a bunch of stuff for free, right? No, but for real, I thought his pitch was brilliant. His pitch was like dude, like we are all gonna jump in and do this on a volunteer basis and we'll see what happens. And I love that. I love when people are like really real and honest about what something is. And he was like we don't have any like resources to share because we haven't generated any resources. And I love teaching the Bible, I love talking into a camera, I love like having a big page of notes and rolling on stuff. So from my perspective, I was like this will be awesome. And so then I asked him if he wanted, I asked them if they wanted a course on the minor prophets and on the book of Leviticus, and so that gave me a reason to study the book of Leviticus every night and just be like a weird Bible geek.
Speaker 3:That's awesome man.
Speaker 2:That's cool.
Speaker 1:So let's take a step back, because I did just realize, most of the time we roll into interviews and we just want to hear, like everything that you're about. We also want to hear, like your name, your story, where you're originally from. So this is Grant Lockridge and then I'm Jared Tafta. So we this is all by the seat of our pants. So tell us a little bit more about yourself. And, yeah, it matters more to us that, like your story is the highlight, more than what you do.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. You've just given me free reign. Now I can like totally abuse that privilege by just talking about my hobbies.
Speaker 1:That's fine, that's like 17 minutes.
Speaker 2:That's what we're here for Just start telling stories about my kids that, like only people with kids will think are interesting. I am thanks for asking. My name is Landon McDonald. I grew up in Chicago and got saved as a kid. God continued to just call me in ways that I didn't really understand at the time and, just from a young age, had a really strong desire to read and understand the Bible and met my wife, brie, and we got married in 2013. We have three kids Ezra, violet and Julian and I moved out here to Phoenix maybe four, four and a half years ago and I am leading a church called Mission in Gilbert and I love this church. I have not had all of the best experiences being involved with Christians and churches and stuff like that, but this experience has been like, absolutely incredible with just really Christ-like, loving people. So perhaps maybe like the way it's supposed to be or something I really don't know, but I love it and I love to collect music. I collect vinyl and CDs behind me and I love to skateboard and I love to sit and look at my laptop and scroll, so things I'd like to do. Yeah, thanks for asking.
Speaker 3:That's legit, man Gosh. I've had a call for forever, like three weeks now. It's unreal. So what's the most interesting thing that you've recently learned, like through your study of the Bible that changed your perspective of something that you previously believe? What's something that blew your mind recently Learning about the Bible Totally?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, what an interesting question. What a good question. I have been reading a lot on women in ministry and learning a lot more about that. I am very into and believe in the gifts of prophecy that I believe the Bible teaches are still around and that certain people have. And I think maybe some people have lain dormant or perhaps people are comfortable using language. I feel blank when in reality what is happening is they have a spiritual gift of prophetic discernment or something like that. And I was reading about stuff like that and reading the book of Joel and seeing how this prophetic gifting is very non-gender oriented in Joel, chapter 2 and in the book of Acts, and so seeing that and just thinking about how a lot of times the conversation is centered around exclusively teaching in a way that I think perhaps is minimalistic of the overarching amount of communication gifts that the Bible teaches, so that was like one thing that I've been reading about that I found really exciting. I was watching this Derrick Prince sermon. Another one is I was watching this Derrick Prince sermon a couple weeks ago. Sometimes I watch Derrick Prince sermons as I fall asleep because they are amazing and this dude is. I don't know if you guys ever watched this guy. This dude is incredible. He'll do. He's in heaven now he's not alive anymore, but he would do 25 straight sermons on the demonic realm and never run out of fresh things to say, and so I like watching stuff like that and I really enjoy passionate teaching that is non performative. And he was talking about Genesis 1-1, and I think I may have learned this in the past, but I may be forgot or something but he was talking about the unfolding nature of the Trinity, and he said that the Hebrew word for God in Genesis 1-1 is plural, and it's this. I want to make a piece of content on it. It's this brilliant hint or wink that the Bible is pushing out, and it's like there's more to this story, like from square one. It's such a. It's such a brilliant and interesting idea.
Speaker 3:Gosh. So there's a lot to unpack there. But my first thing is how would you define what prophecy is? Is it just people telling the truth about a thing? Is it seeing the future? How would you define that in modern day?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's a really good question, and I think that I do struggle sometimes with knowing which words to use, because I don't want to communicate to people oh, you have to understand every biblical word about God to study the Bible, because that's not true. But also the Bible is extremely complicated, and so sometimes I just think I'm just going to talk about this as if I was talking about Star Wars, because when you're talking about Star Wars, you never explain anything unless someone asks. You just give your insane takes and bro, episode nine, blah, blah, blah, the reincarnation of the emperor and all of this insanity. You just explain it, and then, if people don't understand, they just ask you, and so I sometimes feel like I'm just going to roll with it like that. So prophecy is a gift of the Spirit and a prophet is not someone who can tell the future. A prophet is the word, literally means a person who speaks for God, the mouth of God, and so in the Old Testament, a lot of times the focus of prophecy is on what you said. It is on okay. They said Jesus was going to be born in Bethlehem. They said the Messiah was going to be born of a virgin, and that certainly is a part of it and that certainly is perhaps the most interesting part of it. But, in addition to that, a prophet is a person who the Lord speaks through, and that's why there's so many people that don't believe in it, because, obviously, based on the premise that I just pitched, it is such an easy gift to abuse, and that's why there's so many people who have insane stories of people being like God told me blank. There was this girl in college who someone came up to her and said God told me, we're going to get married, and she was like fantastic, when he tells me the same thing, that will make that happen, and so I think that's like an example of how that can be misused. That being said, it's an incredibly important gift, and the apostle Paul says that he wishes that everyone could prophesy and, as far as I know, I think that's the only time there's a statement like that in the Bible. So he's saying that from his perspective, in the Spirit, he wishes that every single person in all of the churches that he has planted could utilize and use this gift, and so, from that perspective, to say it simply, it's just a supernatural gift of the Holy Spirit wherein God delivers information to a person for them to deliver to someone else, and I recognize that some people will think that's insane, but I do think that just a clean, clear reading of the New Testament will lead people to that conclusion.
Speaker 3:You got a big A.
Speaker 1:This is going to feel like a hard, hard right, but you said a few things and the fact that you brought up the prophetic giftings lead me to. I'm just going to give you some thoughts and then you just go on a rant. There's often a competition in the Christian community between those that we see as people of the Word and people of the Spirit, and at one point in time I used to jokingly say that I had a Freudian slip where I would use the word cemetery instead of seminary, and now I actually do that on accident. Before it was a joke and now that actually happens on accident and like I can't stop. But you just like earlier you said you love passionate preaching. That's not performative. Yet a lot of spirit led gifted preaching, the gift of preaching versus teaching. Because you actually said passionate teaching, I apologize. Gifted preaching sometimes has a performative aspect. And when I say gifted, spiritually gifted, where do you feel like the line, or do you feel like there's a line that can be drawn when we are Moving into studying an infinite God, like we do with childlike curiosity in your example of Star Wars? Like a lot of times, I feel like the academic space Puts a lot of pressure on the believer to not be wrong. If that makes sense, I don't really have a question, as much as go where you will with all of that. There's a lot of questions in there, but what's your hot take?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's certainly a really, certainly a really dense and deep topic, and so I love talking about it and I think that I think that a lot of people like take music, for example so you brought up the idea of performative teaching or preaching that we were talking about a second ago, and I don't think it's for I would struggle to not just like Judge if that's my perception, because that's something that I do. I Think that is something for us to avoid and it is something that I struggle with. I do think that a lot of people in Music just grow up with music that they love and they're effectively doing an impression of that music and that is their homage To what they're seeing, and I think that's really cool in its own way. I think it's brilliant. I think that's common, commonly something that would be mocked, but I think it's beautiful. Like, how many bands are there that are effectively just doing Beatles impressions? I'm fine with that, because the Beatles are amazing and a lot of those bands are too. I think that a lot of people hear amazing preaching and teaching and it impacts their hearts so deeply and I think that they Are perhaps a bit uncomfortable being themselves and so they are effectively doing an impression or an homage of Everyone from John MacArthur to Steven Furtick, and I think that there is something precious there. I do think, like what you said, in the Pentecostalism there's a lot of really loud and Sweaty guys. So you're a Pentecostal if you have a designated sweat towel that you carry with you. It is a goal. It is a goal of mine to have a Designated sweat towel with my initials monogrammed on the bottom, to just prove Something. That being said, everyone in their own heart knows if they're performing. And God said About prayer, that he sees when we pray in the secret place and he will reward us. And God says Beware of practicing your righteousness before others in order to be seen by them, and I think that's really good teaching for everyone who has a stage that they are on to keep in mind, and I think that, ultimately, will always be between us and God. That said, I think that it's important for Christians to make space for a variety of different interpretations of how to communicate From a stage and I believe, for the way that God has wired me, I mostly just communicate really Just calmly and I just say things, but sometimes I get really excited in my spirit and I think that's wonderful. And I think other people are wired to Be wild all the time and I think that's fantastic and I think that if that's the way God wired them, that's awesome. I certainly don't want to be a part of gatekeeping how people communicate things that they believe, because it's between them and God what's in their heart, and I would venture to guess that most people who communicate God's word have a really wonderful heart and God knows that and God sees that about them and you know what like. Take it back to the music illustration. Like Bro, I like punk music, I like Led Zeppelin, I like performative things Sorry if that offends any Christian people who are listening and I also like ambient music and folk music and calm music and I also really like listening to a variety of different Christian communicators who communicate in a variety of different ways. I like listening to Michael Heiser talk in a Classroom setting for hours and hours and hours. I would. If there was like a 27 hour Michael Heiser podcast, I would click on it in one second. It wouldn't even the longer it is, the more likely I would be to click on it. I would be like whoa, he did a 70 hour podcast. This is amazing.
Speaker 3:I'll be our next podcast.
Speaker 2:That was, and then and then I also really I like some of these tiktok Evangelists and theologians and I think they take a lot of heat maybe appropriately so at times for their insane takes on things, but I think that what they have going for them is awesome and I love it. I love watching them. And there's this one guy I like named Joel Bomberger, and he does little minute-long tiktok stories, often of just miracles that are Less subjective and more unlike the. This is an objective Miracle or healing has taken place, and I recognize that for a lot of people they would just immediately dismiss that I think it's awesome and I love it and I love the whole range of things, the whole range, the whole gamut, if you will. I like it.
Speaker 3:So where do you think you'd fall on the the spectrum of belief? Are you Pentecostal ish or would you go? I know that we all say that we're denominational months around here, but I'm just curious what you would say.
Speaker 2:Totally, yeah. I think if someone heard me talk about the Bible, they would think I was a Baptist. I think if someone heard me talk about baptism, they would think I'm not an Anglican. I think if someone heard me talk about liturgy they would think I was an Anglican. I think if someone heard me talk about the sacraments, they would think I was a Catholic. But if a Catholic heard me talk about the sacraments, they would think he's definitely not a Catholic. I think if someone heard me talk about the Holy Spirit, they would think I was a Pentecostal. So I am certainly like what you said, like a theological mutt. I believe in infallibility of Scripture very deeply. I believe in the gifts of the Spirit that they are for today very deeply and I believe in feeding the poor and utilizing resources to reallocate resources from people that are wealthy to the poor. I believe in that wholeheartedly, from a completely libertarian perspective, that people should do that 100% because God put it on their heart. And it was really cool to join the church that I'm a part of, because the church I'm a part of long before I was here has this rich history of giving like insanely large amounts of money to the poor, both locally and abroad. And I just had come on staff and we're doing this toy drive for Christmas and I'm like watching all these people bring these toys out of their car and I'm like blown away. Like everyone is doing it, like it's every single car has a bike in the back of it, like really good stuff too. They're not like giving the stuff their kids didn't like last Christmas, like they're purchasing brand new things and it's all for this drive for the special ministry in Arizona here that gives toys to kids that are in like transitional homes, that they're like they don't know if they need to be adopted or not or whatever. And then this woman comes and she's like weeping, she's from this ministry and she was like this is a quarter of what we need for the entire state and that's what the people in this church gave in two weeks. And I was just like these people are incredible. So, all that to say, I think that my various beliefs irritate a lot of people, but I also find, in almost every Christian I talk to, a lot of common ground and commonality and I really believe in unity and I really believe in praying for every church you drive by and I really believe in even if churches are Asian and think very differently than me, or if churches are like light on the Bible, or diet Bible as I would call it. I think that there's a lot of good things that happen in all of those places and I think that our support is needed publicly and any criticisms we have should always be handled privately, which is another, another belief I have that perhaps is not common.
Speaker 1:I felt like a really beautiful and kind and strong response. I also have a fond like for the denominational mutt comment, because the dog from the pound is usually the dog that's the healthiest because of its diversity in DNA. Even if it sometimes is the ugliest, it's often the most loved and the healthiest and the one that lives the longest. Three legged, one-eyed, but great immune system.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. And is it not true in the dog analogy and in the human analogy what Jesus said when he is talk, there's this prostitute at his feet and everybody's good Lord Andy knows her name, good Lord and then he's him who's forgiven of much, loves much. And it's so true. We all have been wounded, we all have suffered and we all have drama, and God uses that to sew together this divine cosmic tapestry of goodness. If we'll just let him do it and let's I just pray that for everyone who's listening that the church woundings that we have would lead us to be more gracious with other Christians and would also lead us to be more like Christ. Hopefully, it certainly has been a process for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the last thing. On the dog analogy, and in a sales training background, a friend of mine used to say you have to clarify that you are saying and understanding the same thing, so two people can say that's a dog, but those two people may be seeing a Chihuahua and a Doberman and it may be a dog, but the actual ability to gain clarity and know that the things we're looking at have more complexity in the truth requires a humility, and I feel like that's what I'm hearing from your heart.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you, I dig it, man. This guy's awesome. By the way, you're a great guy to interview. I always love walking away from an interview. That just didn't make me feel like trash about myself.
Speaker 1:That's always great. Mark Driscoll lives in Arizona.
Speaker 3:Indeed, he does. I have no clue if he actually does.
Speaker 2:He does, yeah, he lives and preaches up in Scottsdale.
Speaker 1:What did you feel about that whole documentary thing? I have opinions.
Speaker 3:Are you asking me?
Speaker 1:I'm asking both of you yeah, what did you guys feel about? You know what I'm talking about the whole podcast docu-series.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't watch it. I think that whatever is criminal. I think it is important for Christians to discuss in an open way, through the use of podcasts and documentaries, whatever is subjective and personal I think should never be discussed that way. I don't think it's helpful. I think that the average Christian would be more damaged by consuming that content than by not consuming it. That's my perspective. I do know Pastor Mark and have known him. He's been absolutely wonderful to me. I'm not saying or suggesting that that is everyone's experience, because I don't know everyone's experience. I just know that to me he's been very kind and wonderful. Perhaps people don't always say those stories. Stephen Ferdick has been wonderful to me too. I don't think it's impressive that I know him or have met him. I just hear a lot of stories that are very negative. I like to add the positive stories to the universe, while not simultaneously suggesting or implying that everyone must have that story, but just adding to the absolute garbage. Poisonous waves of the internet as they wash over us and we all slowly collapse and die under the inevitable weight of having our minds, brains and bodies poisoned by constant negativity and as the algorithm learns in a deeper and deeper way what will poison and destroy us and continues to deliver us small bites of that poison each day that we gleefully suck down because of the munch-housing by proxy of the AI machine that is delivering death to us all.
Speaker 3:And you said one of your favorite hobbies is just scrolling on your laptop. Feels like you'd throw it in the garbage and light it on fire. By the way, I love scrolling on the laptop, I'm immune.
Speaker 1:I'm just being honest.
Speaker 3:I love that. That was so eloquently put that. That's so funny.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you what throwing a laptop into the river is certainly what an emotionally healthy person would do. I just don't happen to be an emotionally healthy person.
Speaker 3:I dig it.
Speaker 1:As we all talk on our laptop right now. Hold on, let me check my phone.
Speaker 3:I feel a very similar way to you is for what is that? The rise and fall of Mars Hill, that's what it is. I'll listen to the whole thing because it just was interesting to me. I think that it was really well done as far as the production value, but as far as content was, I'm not sure, obviously, what happened or didn't happen. But I definitely agree with if it's illegal, if he's doing something criminal, then absolutely we've all got to take a stand and we got to point that out because that's huge. But I also am on team. There was a lot of just bashing on him with no form of him being able to craft a good response to it. They just bashed him and found every way to possibly make good. A lot of people listened to it because it was super interesting, but I feel like there was a lot of wild accusations that weren't exactly proven to the point of absolute certainty in a lot of areas and it just seemed very sensationalized and very much. This guy is a bad guy, you should think of him as a bad guy and he should never do ministry ever again. And there's no redemption for this guy. Get rid of him, that's it, and I just didn't like that, I think were all people, and did he do some questionably bad things? Probably, it seems via that. But also he's a person. He's made in the image of God. I'm sure he's done just a ridiculous amount of good things and I just think that podcast really did him dirty. If you created one of those on me, I'd love to know what that said, because I feel if you created that on a different person, whatever it is, you could rail anybody if you did that level of depth and stuff like that. So I pretty much agree with almost totally what you're saying. So I think you said it pretty good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I, I liked that take you just gave. I thought that was very reasonable and I think, kind I agree, maybe we should just make the negative podcasts about ourselves before someone else has the opportunity to, so then when they go to they'll be like, ah, it's already been done. So you're like calling your sister and it's like being recorded and you're like, hey, remember that time that I like pushed you down when we were at the park when we were kids? Like how mean was I at the age of seven and interview everybody that's ever talked to you.
Speaker 3:And it's man, he was not very nice in that conversation. And it's yes, I was not very nice. I'm not a nice guy Absolutely All the time, 100% across the board.
Speaker 1:Specifically interview the people that you have wounded. Can you give me a list of the people you've wounded? I would like to only talk to them, I just and maybe you did some stuff I'm not like. I'm sure he's a human. I'm not giving him a pass by any means, but it's golly.
Speaker 3:If you pointed out all the negative things about my life and put it all together in a podcast, like that would be bad, Like it's just, I think anybody you can make a podcast about the best guy and there would still be some pretty rough stuff.
Speaker 1:The rise and fall of Grant Lockridge.
Speaker 3:The fall. Hopefully he's rising at some point.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just a fall there is no rise, it's just yeah what it ends in fall, that's hilarious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it ends in fall, because it's like that's why, like proverb says death and life are in the power of the tongue. Like the outcome is life, but we want to end in fall, and to me it's. I listened to 30 minutes and then I process. This is a human being with a family who has to live in a world that is now by his own people being in, having an invitation to have stones thrown at him, and I don't feel like I'm leading us in this direction as much as, like earlier you said you brought up the scripture with Jesus that said he is he who is without sin. Let him cast the first stone. If human depravity is in question and if that's the concern and we need to get to the bottom of whether or not we have righteousness in and of ourselves, I feel like the premise is not that it's not in question. So I don't understand why you would publicly pursue the demise of a human being. That's not. If it's criminal charges, then take it to court. If it's not, I really like what you said, which is you know it's take it privately, like nobody that's interviewed or was in any of that podcast is beyond reproach and absolution. So I just don't understand the value. I really liked what you said earlier. Like most, the average person is not going to be benefited or is not going to receive growth from that, and it's absolutely going to harm the person who is in the sights of the stone throwing. So yeah, I just felt the summarize all that you guys are saying. I just felt there wasn't redemption. There was no. My thought, after listening to a lot of people's opinion, was there was no hope of redemption for this man. This was a take take a person and his family out back and make sure we shoot them. I don't know an execution.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was yeah, and I think that we're all voting what type of content we want to exist in the future with our views and our clicks. And I think it's important for Christians to consider that, like why is it that an article about a person failing gets a million clicks and then let's say there's a redemption part of it later on, that won't even get front page on Christianity today, whatever website? Why is that? I think it's obvious. It's because we are feeding ourselves with something and they are writing based on the algorithms. So, as Christians, let's think about that. Let's click on the stories about martyrs so that we can show we care about this stuff, we're praying for these people, and then the people that are writing the content will be like man. Every time we write about people feeding the poor, it gets a million clicks. Let's write more stuff about that and then let's be a part of the solution, obviously with the caveat that we've all three now said multiple times, which is it's different in the case of something criminal, to which that does not apply.
Speaker 1:I think maybe the key to that would be let's inspire one another to highlight inspirational art, music story Like holiness is good content and righteousness is good content. The problem is it's hard work. The language that I would use is death needs no advocate. Like entropy doesn't need any help, but it is a lot easier. It's a lot easier just to, as you said, take the morphine drip of entropy and just continue to rot and decay. And at some point, if you're decaying, stink smells good, and so I think what we're talking about is to pursue holiness, righteousness, and then to honor, that is to say, god. Let us love what you love and hate what you hate. But, man, that's a lot of work. A lot of work that often we're not really interested in, and I feel like the reason we're not often interested in it is because we're told just do it like, grab hold of it and make good things happen by the skin of your teeth, and that's not the Christian call. I think those are the men and women that'll stand before Jesus and they'll say we did great works in your name and he'll say I never knew you. I've been consumed recently by the call of the believer just to sit and dwell in the presence of God and then, just like earlier, what you said is see what happens. What if we actually just made space to be in the presence of a living God and see what happens? But it just, yeah, it feels like that's a lot of work.
Speaker 2:Man, that's really good. I love what you said. I couldn't agree more. I love Jesus and Mary and Martha's screwing around with plates and cups and shoes and Mary sitting at the feet of Jesus and Martha's hey, jesus, reprimand Mary for not helping me. And he doesn't say she's learning, so just let her learn and then eventually she can serve like you. He doesn't say first you sit, then you serve, or first you listen, then you lead. He says she has chosen the better portion. And the more that I've thought about that and processed that in my 30s, it's so true. He's so right. The best part of being a pastor is being a Christian, and the best part of all of the things, all of the things that we get to do, is knowing Jesus, him whom to know is life eternal, he who came to bring life and bring it abundantly. That's the best part of life.
Speaker 3:Gosh, that's profound.
Speaker 1:Amen.
Speaker 3:The best part about being a pastor is being a Christian. That's the title. I think that's really good.
Speaker 2:No, you got to do like a clickbaity title you got to do three pastors cry while talking about Mark Driscoll.
Speaker 3:We're not doing that, we ain't doing that, we don't care about the clicks, man.
Speaker 2:Make it as clickbaity as possible, clickbaity as possible.
Speaker 3:We don't care about the clicks. We care about actually talking to the people that we'd like to talk to, getting good content out there. That's not just like people are going to listen to and be like, okay, that makes me feel terrible. It's just like getting people one step closer to God, whatever that looks like.
Speaker 1:I'm officially thinking our image should change to a three-legged, one-eyed dog.
Speaker 3:I did just decide upon that Like yeah, I did that, call it denominational mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just a mind yeah.
Speaker 3:I did it man.
Speaker 1:Oh, man, anything else on your heart, anything else on your mind. I just really have enjoyed the conversation, man, and getting to know you as a person and, yeah, what's at the forefront right now? Last call.
Speaker 2:That's very kind. No, I really appreciate it. I am honored by the invite and appreciate it and appreciate you guys just having these candid conversations. I do wish that I could even for 10 seconds, appear as masculine as Grant looks at all times with the tone of his voice and his beard. I always have Gen Z. Kids at my church are always like hey, nice mustache. And I'm like listen, if you had as little making you appear even vaguely masculine as I do, you would grow the best mustache you would grow because you're trying to be all things to all men and at least a man to yourself.
Speaker 3:That's not even a must. That's mud and chops, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Does that go all the way down? Correct? I'm trying to. It's what I want to wear on my wrist, which is what would Daniel Day-Lewis?
Speaker 1:do. Just to be clear, you and I feel the same because Grant's dad, when we record the podcast, has asked who is the young lady that laughs in the background? And Jared is the young lady. So we both feel exactly as you just described. So this manly image of a man beside me with his deep, sonorous voice is embarrassing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. And the Christians are always like wondering if their pastors are humble, and what they don't recognize enough is that Christians always find a way to humble their pastor.
Speaker 1:That's the podcast title how to Humble your Pastor.
Speaker 3:Whatever gets the most clicks is what really got me out of it.
Speaker 1:Oh man.
Speaker 3:Awesome man All right.
Speaker 1:So what's your? What's going to be the CD, the musical choice for the for this evening that you're going to go out on? Oh, let's go.
Speaker 2:Let's see what I got here. I've got the new Wilco album here that I haven't opened yet. I've listened to it on streaming, so I'll be listening to that, probably in a few minutes.
Speaker 3:When did Wilco release it?
Speaker 2:I collected I don't even know who it is In the last month or two Really Nice In the last month or two. Yeah, it's called Cousin. I just saw them up in Scottsdale. It was amazing, so I'll probably be listening to that and I don't know. I'll refrain from holding up any rap music or anything so I can be as minimally offensive to Christians as possible.
Speaker 3:Hey, you know, awesome, Perfect. We're going to end it there. Thanks for listening to the Across the Camera podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate us five stars wherever you got this podcast. Thanks, y'all.
