The Slowness of God | Colby F. Maier | Episode 33

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi, this is Grant Lockridge. I'm here with my co-host, jared Tafta, and pull up a chair across the counter. You're one-stop shop for a variety of perspectives around Jesus and Christianity. Today we have on the podcast Colby Meyer. He's a pastor, he's a YouTube guy, social media guy, and before we got on this podcast, we were talking about his last name if it was Meyer or Meyer and he said something crazy about changing it.

Speaker 2: 0:32

His father changed it or something. I got to hear that.

Speaker 3: 0:36

What's going on with that? My grandpa would probably freak out if he knew that I was telling this. But yeah, he passed away about 10 years ago, so I think I have permission to share now. So he got in trouble with the Secret Service in Nazi Germany during the Second World War and his sister was, I don't know. She got wrapped up with the wrong people, or I mean during that time a lot of people did, but they started to come after his sister. His sister was endangered. So to some degree I don't know to what degree, but his sister was endangered and so, in order to protect his family, he changed the last name from M-E-Y-E-R like Meyer is typically spelled, to M-A-I-E-R. And then they relocated and moved, and he would never actually share the details about what she did or what happened. I just know that it was his sister that somehow got in trouble and then the whole family was endangered. So, in order to protect everyone, he changed the last name. So all of our legal documents now read M-A-I-E-R.

Speaker 2: 1:48

Wow, that's well.

Speaker 1: 1:50

So tell me a little bit about how you got into, you know, pastoring and all the YouTube stuff and all that stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:58

Yeah, yeah, man, so I got. So I was a big sports guy, so growing up basketball was my thing. I actually played with a lot of guys who are in the league or former leaguers. So Kelly Olinik, he played on the Boston Celtics. I think he's on the Utah Jazz now. So, yeah, I'm from Canada, so FYI disclaimer a Canadian living in the US. So all the guys that I was playing with were like on the Canadian Junior National Team or the Canadian National Team. So I played with a lot of guys who were playing the league, like Kelly Olinik, corey Joseph, tristan Thompson played with or against them in some different senses. And so it's cool to see all different teammates and stuff go play all over the place, play overseas in Europe or play in the NBA. Really cool to see that happen. But yeah, right around the time I was 16, 17 years old, I had just a crazy encounter with the Holy Spirit and God just moved powerfully in my life, had a sports injury at the time where my identity was really in question and started to really call or just recall like, what was my identity grounded in? Like, if it wasn't sport, what was it? And I think the injury caused a lot of like really questioning and just deeper I don't know, kind of a more like, kind of like just a deeper questioning about, like what my identity was just ultimately rooted in. And at the end of that I remember staying back because of my injury, staying back at a teammate's house. That summer the team went to go play in Las Vegas at a tournament called the main event, which is like a big tournament with all these D1 scouts that come through, and I stayed back in Vancouver, bc, at a teammate's house and had my like my ankle was in the bucket of ice and I was doing the rice, the rest, ice compression, elevation stuff. And I remember just watching TV flicking through and the animation Joseph King of Dreams came on, which is a really cool, powerful animation and you know the story of Joseph is just like such a powerful story about God's sovereignty, even in the midst of suffering and chaos or even in the midst of like uncertainty, that God ultimately has a plan at the end of that somehow in his sovereignty. And so that for me was just like a huge catalyst in terms of my faith, like my faith really took off. I read the Bible from front to cover that summer, got baptized, went on my first mission trip with a youth group from a local. A local, I think it was like a Mennonite church, but they weren't Mennonite, but I think it was like a local. It was either Methodist or Mennonite but they had like one of the largest youth groups in Canada at that time. They had like 500 kids that showed up every week. You know, at that time it was like a lot of kids, especially for like different parts of Canada, western Canada. So, yeah, I wanted a missions trip with them to Skid Row, to LA. That was like in my senior year of high school and like that, in conjunction with like what God was already doing in my life, it kind of just propelled me into a position of ministry. So I kind of got like I got saved, I met the Holy Spirit, got in counter with God, then like got baptized, started studying the Bible, like crazy, just felt God move so powerfully in my life and that's wanted to, like you know, give him everything, surrender my vocation, my career, what I was going to study after graduation. And then, yeah, I went on this missions trip and I just felt like it kind of sealed that aspect for me, like I really wanted to use my time, my talent and my treasure to serve in ministry and so, yeah, that's kind of what happened. So that launched me from there into like, okay, like in university I wanted to do kinesiology and play basketball. Now I wanted to study theology and be in ministry, you know. So it went like totally upside down and the cool thing it was I still got a full right scholarship, got my all my education paid for, which was really cool. So basketball did God still use that in a way. So I played in Alberta, canada, played at a Bible university, christian University there, and then transferred into my fourth year. I transferred actually oh, fun story actually broke my neck when I was playing basketball in Alberta. So I went up for a dunk and that was a whole other thing. Went up for a dunk mid game and some guy ran on the other team, ran through my legs and just fell straight on my neck and fractured my C, seven, t, one, t, three vertebra, and then that was a whole other, like you know, wrestling with God type moments where for the next six months I couldn't. I was stuck in a neck, brace, you know, lying on my bed. So it's just crazy, you know, to see how all these different like anchor moments that we have in our lives, how they're so you know, like how our lives can go in one direction or another from them, and for me, like, yeah, some of these moments, especially when I was 17, sitting on that couch, you know, just really wrestling with my identity and like what my identity was really like, that for me was a huge anchor moment that changed the trajectory of my life and like ultimately where I am today. So, yeah, yeah, I guess like, how did I? How did I get into YouTube? That's a good question. I think I know media for me was a huge factor in leading me into faith. So I think I've used and actually if you look at my like a lot of my early YouTube shorts, I actually use, I used animations a lot. I like repurpose different animations for different stories and stuff like that, especially like Moses, prince of Egypt, I integrate that and some different things and tell a different story. I think media is a really powerful outlet, a very powerful tool in the kingdom and like animation, particularly for the next generation, is huge Like. So, yeah, I kind of got into into YouTube like maybe just over a year ago, and then we grew to like 2.6 million, which was like in like. We grew to 2.6 million subs in like. I think it was like man six months it like just took off, dude, it just took off. So certainly it was under a year, but I, yeah, it was just crazy how fast it happened. And yeah, then IG2 and Tik Tok and just got into all that stuff and the Lord's been blessing it and we just, you know, people are, you know, reaching out all the time, every day, just saying how how much of a difference it's made in their lives and just giving them hope in a dark place. And you know, that really resonated, resonated with me because another anchor moment I had was a huge season of depression and anxiety when I was like 21, 22 years old, and so that was actually right. After, kind of, I broke my neck, went to transferred to Michigan, had like a summer where I came back and was going to evaluate like, hey, where was I going to work? Which church was like what are you going to stay in the US, or was I going to move back to Canada? Was I going to be with my family or move away from my family? All those questions were kind of circulating at that time when I was like 22, just finished my theology degree and then, just like I had so much you know I was just saved like four years ago but I still had so many patterns of behavior that were were unhealthy, Like I was, you know, getting like four hours of sleep. I was working too much, studying too much, had like a couple of jobs at the time, just wasn't getting rest and it just caused me to burn out and had a total mental breakdown. When I was like 22 years old, my body was like, nope, you're not doing this anymore, like you're doing too much. You got to chill. And so mental health is a big, a big part of my ministry now and just advocacy in that sense, in that way, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 10:12

I saw something on your on your Instagram page. I believe that said pattern speak louder than promises which I just thought was huge. If you wouldn't mind explaining a little bit of that, because I feel like that's a pretty good message.

Speaker 3: 10:30

So yeah, yeah, I mean. So. People often say, hey, I'm going to do X, y and Z, and they often say that, hey, I'm committed to this, I'm dedicated to this. But like what I've realized over the years, and you can take this however you want to take this. Like you can take this introspectively, or you can take this in terms of how people around you, how they engage with you, like you can say this is my behavior. Like you know, I say I'm going to do something but I never follow through on it. Or I say I'm going to commit to a certain way of living. In my, my lifestyle or my, my habits communicate something other than what I'm actually saying I'm going to do, and so you can take it however you want to take it. But what I've realized is like faith, the embodiment of faith really comes alive in how we live right, and so our patterns of behavior really model and demonstrate and showcase and point to like, almost like a signpost, that, hey, my faith is real here in my life. Faith is an active agent in my life, pushing me in one direction or another, and I like how you know, people often rip on him, but I think this is actually a perfect. I think it's a great explanation how Jordan Peterson often talks about faith and people ask him all the time, hey, do you believe in God? And he says I act as if I believe. And I think that's a huge statement Like. I think that people don't give it enough. They're like man, is he denying the existence of God? Is he not making a statement of his faith when he says that? Is he just working away around it? Absolutely not. Like that is a statement of faith. To act as if you believe is to essentially say you believe. But it's more than that, because your behavior is not just a declaration of faith, which so many people make today. Right, it's actually the embodiment of faith, which is a lifestyle, which is a behavior which points to the real thing. So I think it's very easy for us to say, yeah, I believe in God. Well, what do you mean by a belief, and is it a declaration or is it a lifestyle? And so I think, for when I made that statement, like patterns speak louder than promises, or patterns speak louder than promises, it's basically saying like your life and how you live your life is more significant and is more authoritative, both to people around you and indicative to the genuineness of your faith. If you are living in such a way, in a pattern, that's a replica of your faith, of what you declare that you believe in, so I think that's huge. So that's basically it. And then I use that quote from Jesus you know, by their fruit you will know them. We talk in that context. He's talking about false prophets, which I also think it's kind of interesting too, because how often do we false prophesy over ourselves, that we're going to do something that we never do? And Jesus is like by your fruit, you will know. So you better get to work, or their lifestyle. They better get to work if they're saying this stuff.

Speaker 2: 13:34

It's funny whenever Grant told me about that statement pattern speak louder than promises I heard that through a different lens because I'm reading through the Old Testament right now and we're doing this like Bible and 90 day thing and I mean it's just promise after promise after promise, like being built up immediately, and so I first thought of like the idea of like a believer saying that pattern speak louder than promises could be a controversial statement, because a lot of the Bible is about the most powerful thing being promises. So what would you say to that?

Speaker 3: 14:23

Explain that a little bit more in terms of like. So you mean like the promises of the Bible. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:29

So, like the, a lot of Christian faith hinges on promises that have not been met. Or like Hebrews 13, they were longing. Or 11, 12, 13, they were longing for a promise, or believing in promises that they did not receive because the next generation had not come yet. Or like there's a lot about faith and trusting in the Lord, like you mentioned with Joseph in unforeseen circumstances. Like a lot of the Christian faith is clinging to a promise or promises. So would you? Would you add to that on the basis of like God's promises and patterns versus human promises and patterns?

Speaker 3: 15:09

Yeah, no, I wouldn't, because you know God, god acts in alignment with his promises. Yeah, right, so he's always consistent with his promises where we're not, and that's a very you know. So, yeah, definitely wouldn't. Wouldn't apply in that sense of the word. But, yeah, it's more a statement of genuine what constitutes genuine faith, what constitutes genuine belief, what constitutes what validates or authenticates our faith. Is it what we say we're going to do or is it what we actually do? You know, and I often think about. You know, you say, in the mentioned the Old Testament, like how the children of Israel often made many statements about their allegiance to Yahweh and worship to Yahweh when they were bowing down to the, to the altars of Baal and El and Asherah and so forth, and so it's like it's so interesting as humans, because we got this, we got this sin issue, we got this. There's a dysfunction in the, in the, in the, in the condition of man. So we have this dysfunction where we often live two separate ways. We live in alignment with the law of sin and death and we live in alignment with, with God's, god's law and obedience to God, and it's like we're split between these two things so often. And and the heart of it is just like we're not aligned with the heart of God. So we just have to renew that image and get our, or get our hearts and minds back and aligned with his will and purpose for our lives. And so, yeah, I would say God's. God's always consistent with his word. He always acts in alignment with his word and we fail to do that often.

Speaker 2: 16:45

Yeah, yeah, I really like your statement patterns speaking louder than promises and I feel like that's it's true in regard to like, when, when someone breaks your trust and you're, you're called to forgive and then see great resolution, but there's a difference between forgiveness and then trusting someone. Yeah, Place, and so like the idea of patterns speaking louder than than what we say is so valid.

Speaker 3: 17:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, cause I, you know, I think and I've been the recipient of that too, and maybe you guys have as well like where, where someone will often make whether it's a family member, or whether it's somebody else, like someone you're doing business with or whatever they often make, you know, commitments and they often make promises and and all of a sudden, you know, you just realize that hey, things aren't working out, this is not going in the right direction, and they're, they continue to reassure you and it's like, man, we have to ask Christians, like we're not called to be fools, we're called to be wise and not be doormats. You know, and you know there's that, that common proverbial statement, that that there's a in Christianity today, save not soft. You know those things. You know it's like we're, we're, we're called to be wise, to be, to be, to be, you know, to use our, our cognition that God gave us to, you know, determine if we're being taken advantage of or if people are trying to take advantage of us, or if they're, they're, they're leading us astray or leading us on, like we're called to know that, you know, and and dive into that and to really grapple with that. So I think, yeah, that that post just kind of meant all of that in one. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:25

I was hearing this thing, a fellow Portland guy, tim Mackie, is doing this sermon on the Mount like series in the Bible project. Yeah, and it was. It was so interesting to see the way that Jesus has, you know, teachings are almost all in one place, which I thought was awesome. And they were talking about how society like, if it was run like the sermon on the Mount, that it would like some, you know, ancient Christians and modern Christians believe that it would just like society would just fall apart Because, like you were saying, like you know, say what, what was that phrase? Save but strong, or something like that Save not save, not soft, save not soft.

Speaker 3: 19:14

Just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean that I'm just going to. I'm going to back down to any opposition. Yeah, I'm not a. I'm not a complete. You know what I mean? It's like no way. It's like yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:24

And save, not soft, makes me think of like you know, you think of turn the other cheek right, and that's what I think of. Of like you know, or like somebody asked you to walk a mile with them, walk two, or whatever. It is Like just that thought process of like okay, you're going to treat me this way and I'm a person of peace, so I'm not, you know, I'm going to turn the other cheek and basically like open myself up to let you hit me again, which is such an interesting thought process. Is it almost like in my brain, like disconnects, because for me, like I'm, I'm more of like an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, type of guy of like this makes sense, like actions have consequences, you know that sort of thing, but how do you kind of reconcile that?

Speaker 3: 20:14

during the other cheek would not be soft. Well, that's actually so. Turn the other cheek is actually more, more or less, a euphemism for something else, for something as a cultural taboo. Back then. It didn't mean someone hits you, you're going to get struck again. Everyone during that time knew exactly what it meant. It meant to to. When someone said you know, if someone hits you, strikes you on the cheek, like turn, turn the other way, turn the other way. It literally meant you know if someone insults you. It was a kind of a euphemism, analogy for that. It was more of a verbal insult, it wasn't a physical thing. In Jesus' audience they would have understood that. And so he's not saying don't, don't self-defend yourself, because a lot of Christian pacifists will use that as their, as their, their, their kind of foundational proof text. You know, jesus said turn the other cheek. It's like no, no, no, like he didn't, he wasn't, he wasn't talking about nonviolence there. You know that's, that's not at all what the text was referring to. And so, yeah, and so I think you know, we just have to be careful when we kind of take these texts out of their Historical cultural context and then use them as a proof text for something because I think that could be very misleading where it's like oh yeah, jesus is. Jesus was completely talking about non-violence here and we just have to kind of be doormats to people and you know, they strike us, let them strike us again. It's like no, no, no, like we see that in one place, we see that on the road to Galgotha, on the Via de la Rosa, and that was a, that was a volunteer, that was a voluntary form of suffering that Jesus committed to for the salvation of the world and for the forgiveness of our sin, not because somebody, you know, was in some type of physical conflict. Outside of that, you know, jesus had a mission and it was a voluntary mission to redeem humanity, and so that's why we see, you know, being led to the, led to the, like a lamb to the slaughter, Like that's a different, that carries a different connotation, not whether someone is Trying to vert or trying to physically assault you and you just kind of take it. You know what I mean. It's a totally different thing. So, yeah, that's how I, that's how I reconcile it, at least.

Speaker 1: 22:25

Yeah, that makes Cuz. That's something I have to constantly do because, you know, I became a Christian probably three, four years ago myself and that's just that's so difficult, because I can easily take things out of context like that. I can easily like I I've changed my mind probably hundreds of times just like on different little Theological processes and stuff like that, because I'm just constantly like looking into something and it doesn't like it To me. That statement that I said earlier like just felt a little fishy to me and I'm so glad that you like Help me out with that, because I was like this doesn't make sense in my head, if you know, like the character of God, like what it, what is the deal with that?

Speaker 3: 23:10

So yeah, dude, you know, you know it's crazy. This is. I fully believe this. If we taught the Bible properly, we wouldn't have Christian deconstructionism today. We have Christian deconstructionism because we haven't taught the Bible properly, and what I mean by that is we haven't. We haven't. We haven't taught people how to actually read the Bible. And so, because people will take whatever text they want to take, they'll remove it from its Ancient Near Eastern context, they'll remove it from the cultural taboos of the time, they'll remove it from the original languages. Not saying that you need to know Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic to understand the Bible, but what I'm saying is like we actually need to teach people how to read it properly and I'm like I'm super convicted of that because I've just had so many people come to me, to other pastors, and be like hey, like I'm really wrestling with my faith. And once we dig into it, what I usually find out is it is some erroneous Understanding of a certain text from the Bible that they thought meant something that doesn't mean that at all. Like actually a theology really dictates Proper living. Like good theology will lead to good living. Good theology will lead to good behavior. Good theology poor theology will lead to To a painful life. Poor theology will lead to a marred image of God. You know someone who believes that God's a God of judgment. Only you know who's gonna like strike them down at the moment that they sin. It's like man. They're gonna live it in a lot of fear and a lot of anxiety. So we need to get to get them to see a fuller picture of what the Bible, how he, how the Bible, conveys who God really is. So it's all. Theology is such a big part of our conceptualization of both God and our faith and our well-being Spiritually, you know, and so I feel, like so many people today, especially the whole deconstructionist movement. It's a result of and we have to take responsibility for this as pastors, as Christian leaders that we have not taught people how to read the Bible properly. And if we did that, man, there wouldn't be that, there wouldn't be this kind of Upheaval or uprooting of all of this, all of this, this, this language, or all of these, these ideas that we once thought were true, that now we, later on in our lives, we found out they're not true. It's because we didn't really teach people how to read it properly. So that's my conviction. So actually I'm on this huge movement to try to reverse some of that and teach people how to read it properly.

Speaker 1: 25:38

Yeah, I saw that and that's something I wanted to ask you about too. Like so, if I know nothing about nothing, like how do I like what would be your approach to like reading the Bible properly?

Speaker 3: 25:51

Yeah, yeah, I mean my, my first thing is, obviously and I think I've said this in my post, I think I posted this yesterday, but, like, obviously, start with prayer. Like I'm a big believer in avocates advocate for, like, the Holy Spirit will lead us and guide us into truth. When we pray, we ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to us not just what the text is saying, but reveal to us the areas in our own lives, the, the compartments of our own heart that are in resistance to the word of God and to receiving his word. Because and I say this Because, not because we have a callous heart and not merely because, like, god needs to change that and we need to start living in a way that's conducive to as well, not not that, but that we actually approach the text with all of these different ideas about what we think it means and and that's that's subconscious, that's that's not even where some, most of us aren't even aware of the different ideas that we come Towards the text with. We call these presuppositions right. So all of us, we carry presuppositions, thoughts that we believe, prior to actually reading the text itself. Does that make sense? Yeah, so it's like. It's like for you, for example, you just mentioned that passage in the gospel or Jesus has turned the other cheek. It's like Because. It's like when I approach the text with western eyes, when, when I approach the text and it's removed in it, you know, two thousand years later we're reading it from portland orgin in the 21st century. Right, I have all of these modern ideas about what I think certain words mean, and if it's not what the culture of the time, what they meant by those same words, then my idea or conceptualization of what the text is saying is going to be far off. Right, and so many of us do this. We read the text with western eyes. When the text was written where in the middle east? Right it throughout throughout a time where there were Really, ultimately throughout the greco-roman period. Right, where Roman and Hellenistic culture and philosophy was, was, was ruling and reigning During the time of Jesus. And so it's like we need to understand the, the, the cultural, uh, kind of the milieu in order to really understand what the text was trying to say. And so it takes us to have the humility to say I need to Subplant myself from my worldview in the modern age, right, and put myself back into, you know, 2000, 3000, 4000 years ago, and really Immerse myself in the language, in the culture, in the milieu of that time, to To understand the text better. That takes humility, because it's saying that, you know. I see us Lewis he called it chronological snubbery where we think that we know so much more than everybody else who was our predecessor, like all the ancients right, where I find it quite the opposite. Like Saint Augustine, dude, that guy was a, that guy was an intellectual titan. You know, you read, you read City of God, you read some of these works by Augustine, you're like what in the world? This man was a genius. And it's like dude we think we're so far ahead and it's like no man I you know, technology has led us definitely in a in a positive direction, but I think the intellect of these guys back then was insane, Like their intellectual capacity was just wild. And so I say all that because I think it's important that we approach the text out of humility and never approach the text thinking that we already know what it says. Even if I've read a text a hundred times, I'm going to go into it each time and ask the Lord, ask the Holy Spirit, to remove the ideas, the presuppositions, the box that I've created for myself that may impede a true, genuine reading and rendering of the meaning of the text. So I'm always asking, I'm doing that digging, I'm doing that homework before I go back into it, and I think that's important. So if that was my one thing, I would say I was like really try to be mindful and aware of your biases and your presuppositions, the ideas that you have about the text, before actually reading the text, and try it. It's impossible to remove all of them. There's no way, because your presuppositions are built on, not just on your prior reading of the text. It's built on your culture, on your age, on your experiences and all those things Right. So yeah, so I would say just really be honest with yourself and be humble in how you approach it.

Speaker 2: 30:18

I love that your passion for reading the Bible led, with your first step being prayer, because one of the root things that I believe about Scripture is that revelation comes from God alone. We're not the ones that unblind ourselves. It's like when Peter was standing before Jesus and he said who do you say I am? And Jesus. Peter says Messiah, and it was the first time that there had really been this actualization in one of the disciples. And he said it's not flesh and blood. This revealed this to you. But, like Father in heaven, I feel that way about all truth. When you've had that aha moment or there's the first time that you've seen that in Scripture that you've read a thousand times, I think that's evidence of the spirit of God actively revealing things to us, and so I love that the beginning was just praying over us actually hearing from God and not the voices in our head, not the voices of the culture. There is an avenue, though, that I feel you mentioned, that you don't have to know Aramaic or Hebrew or get into the deep theological or sorry, deep historical context. But in some way I guess what I wrote is in speaking about euphemisms, or what did the people of that day hear? I've felt before that that can become like an endless journey, if that makes sense, because there's so many opinions about historical context and culture, and if you're looking for evidence of a person that lived 3,000 years ago it even comes down to how much. How do you find evidence, for this is what that person was hearing, or even the evidence for this is the euphemism that they heard or that they did not hear. And then there's so many opinions. So how do you kind of hold those things in balance? if that makes sense, I don't hear you saying you need to become an Aramaic Hebrew, but there is a balance, right? Do you hear what I'm saying? Yeah, totally, totally.

Speaker 3: 32:36

No, yeah, I totally hear. Actually, there was an archaeologist and I'm blanking on his name right now, but he made all of these historical assertions about the Red Sea and how they found chariots in the Red Sea. You probably heard about this, I think they actually they might have wrote a docu-series or filmed a docu-series on this. He made all these historical claims that 99.9% of the scholarly community refuted and I'm a big guy and also having practicing teaching other people to not pretend like they're experts in every field that they're not. I think this is the problem with the internet is like we and I think we saw this particularly in 2020, if you know what I mean when we became. Everybody became their own self-proclaimed expert on different things. That, and there's a degree where this is healthy, right. So I'm not saying all of this is you shouldn't do your own research. That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that people who have given the entirety of their devoted, the entirety of their lives to study something biblically, theologically, scientifically, when there's a majority view, a consensus view within the majority of that scholarly community, I'm more willing to bank on that, or trust in that, more than I'm willing to trust on my own endeavor in seeking, without any prior knowledge or understanding. Now, I'm not saying that the majority is always right, that's not what I'm saying. But when there's a scholarly consensus on something, historically, culturally, in the ancient Near Eastern world, there's a strong likelihood that they hold some weight to it. So I'm willing to investigate or read the text with that in mind, and I think it's important to really choose wise sources when we're doing some of that digging into the historical, cultural backdrop Actually. So next month I'm releasing a course on how to study the Bible via the book of Exodus, and so it's an e-course and I get into a lot of the historical, cultural backdrop of the ancient Near Eastern world and, for example, if you look at this is just like a preview of it. But if you look at the gods of Egypt, it's a very, very strong argument. I believe, knowing the Egyptian kind of the Egyptian. Really, the Egyptians had like a pantheon of different gods, right. So they had a god for the sun, ra, they had a god of the Nile Hape, they had all these different gods, and what's interesting is that when you read the text, understanding the kind of the pantheon of different gods that Egypt had, it becomes very, very, almost blatantly obvious that each of the plagues that Yahweh sent to Egypt were an assault against the gods of Egypt. So, the Sun God, ra, remember the plague of darkness? Basically, yahweh was the true God of the Sun, yahweh is the true living God. That Ra holds no weight over the Sun, that it's Yahweh who controls it. So, and then Hape, the God of the Nile, right, the Nile has turned to blood, rendering its life-giving properties as futile and useless. Like it's Yahweh who controls the Nile, like it's Yahweh, it's the God of Israel that controls these things. And each of the plagues is an assault against the Egyptian gods. It's like a war against the gods. And that's not saying that the gods of Egypt were really something. It's saying that they're dead gods, they're useless, their authority holds no weight. Yahweh, the God who has the control, the God who has power and sovereignty, he is the true living God. And it's like, without actually understanding the ancient Erester backdrop and the pantheon of the Egyptian gods, like you would have no idea that each plague is like an assault against the gods. It's like a war against the gods. And so the text becomes. It comes to life and it's actually. It's more powerful and it's more like eye-opening and it's more like wow, like once you understand that, it's like. It's just it blows my mind Like I love reading the Bible. Knowing the ancient Erester backdrop, I love it. It's just like I geek out on that stuff.

Speaker 2: 36:58

Yeah, so yeah, I hear you. I hear you saying, like you know, dig deeper, find reputable resources, because the immediate place that you can go is like oh, I need to get some ancient Erester backdrop, so I'm going to watch 708 second videos from everybody's opinion about that.

Speaker 3: 37:18

Right, right, no, no, no yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:20

I'll read the Bible in a really healthy way because now I've got a lot more content and like what. The bigger problem I see is often like we don't dig deeper into academic resources or it's even difficult to find because there's such a plethora of just like you said the word my me loo earlier.

Speaker 3: 37:39

I'm mispronouncing now no, you yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:42

You, yes, so like that's almost what the internet is now, and like even finding a reputable resource sometimes can become chaos. So it's interesting Like I didn't hear you saying, obviously, that just some light research will help you be a better Bible reader. But even entering into the realm of what it means to dig deeper and have healthy sources is a complicated matter, I feel like. Do you feel that?

Speaker 3: 38:11

Yeah, yeah, no, no, I think you're absolutely right. I think it's like which authorities can we trust? Whose voices can we trust? Whose research can we trust? And so I actually I created a compilation of different resources that, like, I've thoroughly vetted other people in the community thoroughly vetted. Their research has been peer reviewed, you know, by other experts in the scholarly community. Whether it's archaeologically or whether it's theologically, it's like it's good and that's how we, that's like, that's all it's. You know, that's that's the place also of scientific process in the Christian community, in the faith community, in the theological community. Like there's a scientific process to studying the Bible. There actually is, and people freak out about that. Like what in the world do you mean by that? It's like no, no, no. Like we come to an understanding of what the text is saying. Like when we take into all these different factors into consideration, when there's a community that vets your work, historically, archaeology, archaeologically, whatever right they vet your work, they peer review your work. Like that is a scientific process and that's how the theological, the scholarly community, when we study the Bible, that's how we engage with it is, is building upon the work that other people have also studied, given their livelihood to, they've given their lives towards understanding this, this, this concept or this word or this, this cultural taboo or whatever it is. Whatever you know, they devote themselves to, and then someone else in that community. They vet that work, they peer reviewed it. There's consensus over it, like that's how our knowledge base grows of the Bible, and obviously not like we. We, we know that knowledge is not enough. It needs to lead to transformation. So if we're, if we're coming to these conclusions but there's no life giving transformation, well, as a Christian, like, we need to be transformed by what we read, and if we're not transformed by what we read, we've wasted our time as Christians. Now you can study the Bible without a, the presupposition of faith. You can study the Bible without the, the, the kind of the. There's a lot of theologians who aren't Christians, right, there's a lot of theologians who aren't. They don't believe in God, and so it's. But as as believers, I look at what Anne Slam of Canterbury said. He says faith seeking understanding. In other words, it's like we, we begin as believers that there's a lot of things we don't understand, but we're going to begin with the premm off the premise of faith and work our way towards understanding more about that, and I would say that's the one presupposition like that is that is healthy, that we need to approach as Bible-believing Christians with this idea that we, we we start with faith, and there's a lot of things that don't make sense to us, but we're going to seek to understand more as we go and as we move forward, how that, how that validates, how that confirms our faith or how that grows our faith. So it's like you know, because I think if you totally start with a as a, as a Christian, you're you approach the text at a complete skepticism all the time. Well, that's going to lead you down a different rabbit trail, you know. So there needs to be an element of faith in how we approach the text as well. Right, where we don't see that is, you know, we call this higher criticism, like historical critical scholars will approach the text with the presupposition of skepticism every single time. So, in other words, prime example of this. Guys, if this is really boring for you, just tell me, because I could talk about this all day.

Speaker 1: 41:35

So Wait, wait, wait, wait. I don't mean to cut you off, I want. I want you to keep going, but just so you know it's not boring. We talked with John H Walton, right, if you, if you know who that is which he's like an ancient Near East, like super scholar guy, and he's so smart. And he taught us how to Dude.

Speaker 3: 41:55

I got one of his. I got one of his books on my, on my shelf, and he's actually someone that is. He's a phenomenal scholar. I actually read. I think he wrote a book on was it the minor prophets that I read? Um, I think he wrote something on the, on the on the book of Jonah, that blew my mind, man, but anyways, didn't need to cut you off If you want to hear him, just like beat us with sticks on the podcast.

Speaker 1: 42:20

We call it hit with a stick because, like, first of all, we didn't go to Bible college, so we we don't know what's going on. But, like you know, we learned what hermeneutical literacy was. I felt like a two year old, I was just like.

Speaker 2: 42:33

And can you tell me what that means now?

Speaker 1: 42:35

It is here we go, here we go. So hermeneutical literacy is what you were talking about basically, which is accurately, you know. Studying the Bible is what I would say.

Speaker 3: 42:48

Is that right? Yeah, so it's, it's, it's well, it's basically understanding the principles that guide our interpretive processes. So, and I actually outlined, I actually outlined all of these and I actually outlined all these in my in my course not to make a plug, but I do because I just I just finished filming it in my course how to study the Bible, where I walk through, in a very simplified way, all of the basic hermeneutical principles that we should be aware of as we approach the text, and so I call them I just simplified them call them basic Bible study principles. That's how I simplified them.

Speaker 1: 43:22

But dude.

Speaker 3: 43:22

Walton is. He's a legend dude Like yeah, I love that dude, like he's, he's a, he's a heat bringer. But anyways, as I was, I think he was at Dallas Theological Seminary or I'm not sure which where he was at, but I think he was at. Was he at DTS? I can't remember.

Speaker 1: 43:36

Oh, I know it's smart and he made my brain.

Speaker 3: 43:40

He's a genius, but I was. I was saying like so. When Jesus, when we talk about higher critical scholars, they begin with the presupposition of skepticism and so everything, they start off with unbelief. And that is interesting because that can. When we read the New Testament particularly, and we see the miracles of Jesus, higher critical scholars will say, for example, the demoniac or the I'm trying to think of a good example of this For example, in the New Testament, when there's someone convulsing on the ground from a demonic encounter, demonic possession or whatever you want to call it, higher criticism would say that that wasn't really the spiritual powers of evil or that wasn't demonic possession. Higher critical scholars would say that was simply epilepsy, this person was having an epileptic episode, it was a seizure, and they understood it back then through their, through their lens of this is a demonic encounter and that's how the writers would have understood what they saw, versus it being through the presupposition of faith that there is actually powers of evil and darkness in the universe, there are powers of good and healing, that Jesus has the power over these demonic powers, that he actually healed this man, this person, from these demonic powers. Right, and then this person was well where they would just say, yeah, it was just a, it was a natural phenomenon that they understood by a natural biological phenomenon, occurrence that they would have understood as something spiritual, and so it will write off all of these miracles as simply, you know, these were just natural, natural things that you know that happened, and the original writers got it wrong. So that's how higher critical scholars would approach a text like that, and so we want to be careful of that. We guard ourselves of that by. We do believe in miracles, we do believe in the powers of evil and darkness, we do believe that Jesus has authority over those powers, and so there's an element of faith that we need to be approaching it.

Speaker 1: 45:52

That just makes me think, like, first of all, what in the demoniac? Just like insanely strong to like he was, just like breaking chains, Like he got seizures, but like also he's just like you know, superman, basically strength, but also, like you know Jesus's miracles, like he put mud in a dude's eyes, like he's mud, he's a shared of blindness.

Speaker 3: 46:17

Okay, so fun, so fun, interesting, interesting fact about mud, right? So mud back then was actually seen. This is really cool. This is the really. I'm glad you brought this up. Mud back then was thought to have medicinal properties in it. So many people, not just Jesus would use mud to put on different various elements or wounds, and so it was not uncommon Jesus picking up mud and putting on this dude's eyes. That wasn't an uncommon occurrence, like like, but Jesus actually healed the man, but he used. The interesting thing is that he uses different elements and this is beautiful because I think this is how God operates. God meets us at where we are, like nowadays. Like we might say, oh, that's like foolishness. Like mud has medicinal properties, okay, whatever. Like that's, that's wild. But like how often will God and how often do we see in scripture God do something that perhaps doesn't make any sense to us, but it made sense to them and that's why he did it? Hmm, do you know what I mean? Like how humble of a, how humble of a God, like the living God, how like? This is a beautiful picture, a beautiful portrait of who he is, because he's a God who humbles himself to such a degree that he actually uses our, our, under, like our, our context. He actually meets us on our level, not because he changes, but because we change. Therefore, god meets us at where we are. He uses the things around us to make sense to us. Like this is beautiful, like I think this is mind-blowing. Like that God would meet us on our level to take the things to Communicate his, his, his truth, his word, wrapping it in language that we could understand it. Like so, when I read the scripture, I see how Jesus taking mud and he's putting on this guy's eyes. I'm like he could have healed the man without putting mud on his eyes. But he puts mud on his eyes because he's communicating something to his listeners, to his audience, what he's trying to do. Right, he's making sense to them about what he's doing. And I see that in so many different ways, in so many different patterns, especially throughout the Old Testament, where God will do something that he doesn't have to do but he does anyways so that it makes sense to us. And like that's a God who is humble, like that's a God who meets us on our level and that's a beautiful picture of the type of God that he is. And and so like, when I study the text and I come to these kind of conclusions and understandings, like man that's, it paints a more beautiful canvas of the character of God, like he's worthy of our worship because he's like this, you know. So yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:57

I like. I like what you said, because it's making me think like do you have kids, kobe?

Speaker 3: 49:03

I don't. I don't have any kids.

Speaker 2: 49:04

Okay, all right. So like, or if you've ever trained anyone that is Disciple, or trained anyone or anything that knows nothing about what you're training them in, like you will. If you need to teach someone about something and you, you will do whatever you're doing in a protracted, slow manner, in in exaggerated ways and and oftentimes you sacrifice time, you sacrifice efficiency, you may even sacrifice quality as well, like to the degree of music or Food or art, like, because your intent is not the product, it is the person, and so you will frequently, if you're teaching and you're really training and really raising up the person to have their own artistic and creative and participatory likeness to you, then you will take whatever measure possible to To show them and so like yes. You can take this in any way that you want, but, like you know, if you're teaching someone like I'm a food guy, so like it, it's just slower and and and you're going dramatic about the way that you hold a knife. You're gonna be more dramatic about the way that you Cut or seer or and and use so much more care in the teaching because the person's understanding and and participation and actually in actually gaining what you're trying to share is what's of most importance, versus just Kind of making a slave and whipping them and saying like, no, do it this way, do it this way, do it this way. Like you can teach that way, but doesn't. It doesn't bring life-giving passion that'll allow you to make it. Yes, you just made a slave.

Speaker 3: 51:03

I love that. That's a beautiful, that's a beautiful analogy. I love that. There's that's so good and that's true. There's a. There's an old, there's an Old Testament scholar. His name is Alden Thompson. He wrote a book called who's who's afraid of the Old Testament God and he makes this line? I Was afraid of the Old Testament. Godly, everyone's terrified right. He makes it one statement which makes so much sense about, actually about the title itself and why God acts in a certain way and what he, why he does. Certain things that he does in the Old Testament that to us are like wow, that's pretty aggressive. Like what he says. Reform, he says. If reform happens to hastily, all will be lost. If reform happens to hastily, all will be lost. In other words, if, if I was to To turn off, if I was living in complete darkness for you know, I think we, I don't think it's possible, I think we actually die without light after a certain period of time or something goes wrong in our, in our on the cellular level, if we don't have light. But if, if I was living in darkness for for a long period of time and I suddenly just flicked on the most powerful form of light, Mm-hmm dude, that would be chaotic. You know I'm saying that would be beyond blinding. Yeah, and I think it's true as well. Like we need like a dimmer switch, because we've been living in darkness, because Things got, things got so crazy that we we actually need progressive revelation.

Speaker 2: 52:32

Yeah or water, or if you've been starving um right right, right, yeah, starving.

Speaker 3: 52:39

You know, if you eat too much, all at once you're gonna die right, you have gone for.

Speaker 1: 52:43

yeah, exactly, I just watched a movie about that.

Speaker 3: 52:45

Actually, someone, where was that? Oh yeah, the plane crash of the Uruguagans. They, they, they've crashed the planes in the and then they were starving for however long anyways.

Speaker 2: 52:54

It's the same with the band of brothers. Whenever they got the Nazis out of the concentration camps and started just like giving them food, they were like stop, stop, stop, stop, stop right.

Speaker 3: 53:03

Yeah, yeah, you're gonna hurt yourself, exactly, exactly, yeah, so that's. That's another great analogy. It's like you got to take a little bit my grandfather, so the guy who changed his last name. He was eating grass in an American refugee camp, you know, for he was living in the swamps eating grass. But it's like. It's like so if we do too much, if we turn on that dim, like if we, if we turn it on too quickly, too fast, like we're gonna be blinded, all is gonna be lost. The truth won't be received. So it's like all will be lost. So it's like reform, because these people were living in, like just the Israelites. They were living in the Egyptian world, filled with polytheism, filled with worship to other gods Before that, before they're there, even their entry into Egypt, what that looked like before they entered Egypt, and and their worship, we don't even know what that looked like Fully. So it's like God is slowly beginning to progress, allow them to progress towards the worship of Yahweh, and he reveals his covenant name to Moses at the burning bush, and he's beginning to solidify this covenant relationship to them about what true worship looks like. And then, throughout history, the ultimate culmination of that revelation is in Jesus. But it's like this is happening slowly over the course of thousands of years you know what I'm saying and it's like if it happened too quickly and if God didn't, if God didn't implement strange laws for strange people who were coming from strange places. Like another one is like don't boil a baby goat in his mother's milk. It's like what in the world does that mean well to them? That made perfect sense, right, that was. That was a, that was a ancient Canaanite worship practice, so that was a pagan ritual that they would boil a baby goat in his mother's mouth. And so it's like to us. It doesn't make sense To them. It would have made perfect sense. And he's putting certain laws in place, certain things in place that made sense to them, because the book, the text, is being written at a certain time, place and culture, right, and he's performing them in little increments to get them to where he needs them to be. And that's the beautiful thing about God is like he works with us at where we are. He turns on that dimmer ever so slightly. He brings a little bit more light, a little bit more truth, until the full combination of that light, the light of the world, jesus Christ, is revealed, and I think that's beautiful, like that's who God is. You know, that's the power of the God that we serve, as he's actually a God who is like that. He reveals himself so gradually, so slowly so that we could comprehend his beauty, his glory and his majesty. Otherwise, you turn that switch on too quick. We don't have a shot, man. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 55:51

So it's powerful, it's romantic, not manipulative.

Speaker 1: 55:55

That's beautiful, man. Go ahead, you had. No, I just Just so well-sad on, I was just thinking like if you've ever fasted, you know by any means, and we don't need to get in the whole fasted thing. But one time, which this isn't me like, oh, I fast, I'm such a good Christian. It's like I've done it like a couple of times, but like one time I fasted and then I ate just an absurd amount of Mexican food after three days of fasting and I literally like I was hanging out with one of my buddies afterwards and I had to leave, like I was just like so After that it was insane, like I was just like because I just ate like a normal meal, like it wasn't like you know, it was just like you know Mexican food and I just went. I felt so, so full. But I just think of like drinking out of a fire hose, like all those metaphors and that just like I don't know. That just feels so beautiful to know that we have a God that treats us that way, that treats us like you know, you don't just like to teach a little kid, you don't. Just you know, give him, you know, a manuscript of a crazy book. You give him like a little bite-sized chunks and it's just like. That is just a gorgeous thing that I've never really thought about before. Like I think about my own path and my own, you know, call to repentance in my life and how it feels like you're constantly like, you know, you fix something else and then another thing pops up, but you like, you know, you constantly go through and it's like you know I'm not doing this anymore, but I've noticed more so in my life in this area and like stuff like that, and it's just so beautiful that he one, we're born again. So that's just awesome, so we are a new creation. But also in the light of like sanctification of it's not just like, you know, beam me up, boom, boom. It's like just like the father just constantly working with his kids, just constantly bringing them along one step at a time, and even if it feels like we're like failing, but we're always learning and we have a father who loves and cares about us in that way. So that's just.

Speaker 2: 58:16

So I want to end with Colby, you know. Final, final thought, and I think I have a question to maybe localize this, and it would just be Colby, what would you say to the slowness of God being one of our greatest hopes?

Speaker 1: 58:31

Hmm.

Speaker 3: 58:33

I've never heard it put like that. I like that. I like the way you put that. The slowness of God, the slowness of God, maybe that that'll be good. That sounds like a John John Mark Comer book right there.

Speaker 1: 58:45

I do like that man. We want him yeah.

Speaker 3: 58:48

Yeah, yeah, you need to get John Mark man. I went over coffee with him one time. Dude, that guy blew my mind. He's like on a whole other level, the slowness of God you question. Your question was how does the slowness of God.

Speaker 2: 59:01

What would you say about the slowness of God being one of our greatest hopes?

Speaker 3: 59:05

Wow, man, just that, just that statement is powerful, Just that question, right Statement, the, the. How is the slowness of God one of our greatest hopes?

Speaker 2: 59:17

Wow, I think for context, the slowness of God is often one of our greatest frustrations.

Speaker 3: 59:23

Yep, come on, bro, let's go. You're preaching now. Yeah, you're preaching now. That's good, dude, that's so good. That's gonna be my sermon this week. That's gonna be my sermon this week.

Speaker 1: 59:34

That's so good. How does the slowness of God ties in so much?

Speaker 2: 59:37

That's good and you got to go out and time wise, but like it just ties in, like this I got 10 more.

Speaker 3: 59:42

I got 10 more minutes. Dude, we're gonna have 10 more minutes All right, the scientific process is slow.

Speaker 2: 59:47

The the revelation of truth is painfully slow. The the good making of love is slow yeah.

Speaker 3: 59:54

Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah For real.

Speaker 2: 59:59

Because, like the cooking of good food, the learning of art, like the beauty, is in the majesty of slowness. But we don't have enough time for anything, and so it just hurts a lot to wait, and usually the people around you are hurting and that which we care for most, like you, just can't make grace come faster, and it's not right to. But, but now we're in the middle of a of a slow, beautiful grace and hurting. So what do we do, colby?

Speaker 3: 1:00:49

Oh man, that's good dude, that is so good. That is so good, that is so good, that is so good. That is so good, that is so good, that is so good. You like, you romance that so beautifully, man, that was beautiful, that was beautiful. The slowness of God, man, you know what is that. What is that text that says, you know, god is not willing or wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, like he's a long suffering God, he's a patient God because he's not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance and to faith. You know that that, right there and how, and also like, I think it's not just, it's not just salvific, I think, the slowness of God. Somebody said there was a great Japanese theologian. He says that God moves at the pace of three miles per hour. No, god moves at the pace of three miles per hour. In other words, the pace of love is the pace of three miles per hour, because the pace of love is a pace that moves slow enough to stop, slow enough to heal, slow enough to listen, slow enough to help, slow enough to love well. You know, it's really hard to love well when you're racing through life, and how many Westerners today we race through life. We race at a pace that's not sustainable. We do things at a pace at a rate that's not sustainable. Technology demands more production, more performance, more quotas to meet, more things to do. Meanwhile, god is moving at such a pace that is so slow, you know, and he wants us to journey with him at that pace, to walk with him at that pace, to slow down in rhythms of grace and slow down in movements that co-align with his movements, that model and mimic right his movements. But we're moving at a pace, that is, we're getting so far ahead of ourselves that we don't have time to see what God is truly wanting to do in our lives, you know. So it's like the slowness of God is a hope, not just for salvation, that all should come to faith and repent, but it's a hope for our current predicament in the chaos of the modern age, where we move at paces that are not sustainable, that we move at paces that ultimately bear weight on our health and our mental health crisis. Today, it's like all those things anxiety, depression, burnout, all those things are the derivative of moving at a pace that God has not called us to move at. And if we would just slow down and move at his pace, man. I'm confident that we would be healthier. I'm confident that we would be more spiritually vibrant and alive. I'm confident that we would actually be co-heirs and co-brothers with the Jesus, who moved at such a pace, walk in his footsteps. Anyone who claims to live as Christ lived must walk as he walked, and I think that has to do also with the pace that he moved. You know, he stopped, he made time for people, he loved people well, and so if we did that, I think that would be, that would be something special for our age today. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:04:04

Awesome, amen. I think that's a good place to end, unless anybody else got anything.

Speaker 3: 1:04:11

Dude, we got to do part two. We got to do part two.

Speaker 2: 1:04:13

I'm telling you I got my hook for your part two that you hopefully you'll respond to. It's that you mentioned the scientific method and one of my favorite revelations is in science there's the law of thermodynamics, which is the study of heat and light. Do you know what the name of the study of cold and darkness is? No, no there's not one, because there is no life outside of heat and light. You're only ever studying the absence of light or the absence of heat, so we could go over your podcast about your scientific method, Dude that's good.

Speaker 1: 1:04:52

Say that's beautiful. Thanks for listening to the Across the Counter podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate us five stars wherever you got this podcast. Thanks, y'all.